Need to move on

[kingsman Member Find all posts View Profile Close kingsman]

I do not understand. Perhaps I am dense.

Obviously I work for a security company.

But now I am at a loss as to what to do.

Seems some of the mangers of the company are paying people under the table. Is this normal? And how should I handle it?

I now know of two managers who are apparently paying people under the table. I also know of at least one site supervisor who supposedly pays people off the books to fill his position when he doesn't want to work.

I have absolutely no proof of any of this. I have only the word of other officers who apparently are involved in this. One who has regularly complained that he is paid off the books but doesn't want to be, and another that says he has been from time to time.

Neither apparently wants to go to corporate to handle this. So to me, it is only hearsay.

Damn it. How should I handle this without getting my ass fired. I have never been approached by any of these supervisors to work under the table or off the books.

[mh892 Member Find all posts View Profile Close mh892]

I do not understand. Perhaps I am dense.

Obviously I work for a security company.

But now I am at a loss as to what to do.

>>>>>>Seems<<<<<<< some of the mangers of the company are paying people under the table. Is this normal? And how should I handle it?

I now know of two managers who are apparently paying people under the table. I also know of at least one site supervisor who supposedly pays people off the books to fill his position when he doesn't want to work.

>>>>>>I have absolutely no proof of any of this. I have only the word of other officers who apparently<<<<<< are involved in this. One who has regularly complained that he is paid off the books but doesn't want to be, and another that says he has been from time to time.

Neither apparently wants to go to corporate to handle this. >>>>>>So to me, it is only hearsay.<<<<<<<

Damn it. How should I handle this without getting my ass fired. I have never been approached by any of these supervisors to work under the table or off the books.

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I don't see a problem for YOU. You are admittedly "listening to rumors". Maybe someone is jerking your chain? What makes you feel YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING?

Unless you are in a supervisory position or have been appointed to investigate a situation by higher authority, you would be overstepping your employee bounds by even bringing the subject up to anyone in the company or elsewhere, without evidence. You have no evidence, only RUMOR. AND, someone could be setting you up to loose by feeding you incorrect information.

To cover your own axx, don't be repeating the rumors yourself.

So you've heard some stories. If these other people have a problem it is up to them to take care of themselves. Sorry to be so blunt, but thats the way it is....... from an old guy thats been there and seen that.

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

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I don't see a problem for YOU. You are admittedly "listening to rumors". Maybe someone is jerking your chain? What makes you feel YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING?

Unless you are in a supervisory position or have been appointed to investigate a situation by higher authority, you would be overstepping your employee bounds by even bringing the subject up to anyone in the company or elsewhere, without evidence. You have no evidence, only RUMOR. AND, someone could be setting you up to loose by feeding you incorrect information.

To cover your own axx, don't be repeating the rumors yourself.

So you've heard some stories. If these other people have a problem it is up to them to take care of themselves. Sorry to be so blunt, but thats the way it is....... from an old guy thats been there and seen that.

Good advice.

[N. A. Corbier Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close N. A. Corbier]

The only time(s) you have to do something under state law(s) is(are):

1. You learn of criminal activity in your workplace.
2. You learn of labor law violations in your workplace.
3. You learn of OSHA violations in your workplace.

In these cases, you have to learn of actual incidents. Not just "rumors."

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

The only time(s) you have to do something under state law(s) is(are):

1. You learn of criminal activity in your workplace.
2. You learn of labor law violations in your workplace.
3. You learn of OSHA violations in your workplace.

In these cases, you have to learn of actual incidents. Not just "rumors."

I'd be very careful about #2. On paper you are protected against being fired if you whistle blow but in the real world.......

[N. A. Corbier Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close N. A. Corbier]

Have a back up plan before #2. Keep in mind, that OSHA amasses huge fines against people who harass whistleblowers. And possibly jail time for violating several federal laws. Sometimes its worth it just to quit that day, so that you're not fired.

[Bill Warnock Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bill Warnock]

I do not understand. Perhaps I am dense.

Obviously I work for a security company.

But now I am at a loss as to what to do.

Seems some of the mangers of the company are paying people under the table. Is this normal? And how should I handle it?

I now know of two managers who are apparently paying people under the table. I also know of at least one site supervisor who supposedly pays people off the books to fill his position when he doesn't want to work.

I have absolutely no proof of any of this. I have only the word of other officers who apparently are involved in this. One who has regularly complained that he is paid off the books but doesn't want to be, and another that says he has been from time to time.

Neither apparently wants to go to corporate to handle this. So to me, it is only hearsay.

Damn it. How should I handle this without getting my ass fired. I have never been approached by any of these supervisors to work under the table or off the books.

If you know of wages being paid for which federal and state taxes are not being collected then as Nathan has indicated, you are required to report this first to IRS. If several of your co-workers have received such pay then they are involved in complicity which means the state of being an accomplice. To withhold such information in the federal arena, that is misprision of a felony for which you could be fined or imprisoned or both. IRS has a discreet hotline for reporting such "suspicions."
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[N. A. Corbier Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close N. A. Corbier]

Better to be the anonymous tipster (who really isn't anonymous, folks...) than the "accomplice" who kept the money and their mouth shut.

[Mr. Security Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr. Security]

Some security companies have a hotline just for such situations. You can remain anonymous. IMO, before reporting anything to the police, you should go by the same standard of evidence that they do: If you don't have enough evidence to convince a judge to sign a warrant, then don't make accusations. Otherwise, you may find yourself in a civil court trying to defend against slander and defamation of character litigation.

[kingsman Member Find all posts View Profile Close kingsman]

There again, I have no proof. I have no way to get proof. All I have is hearsay and rumor. Nothing to make a case on. Having seen how rumor is spread thru this and other companies, I can't see going to any other organization with only that.

I mean, I can see where there may be as many as 5 supervisors involved in this so far, and if true, it is probably rampant. three levels above me in the chain of command.

level one Guard
level two Lead Guard
level three shift supervisor (me)
level four site supervisor
level five assistant manager
level six operations manager

So with at least two operations managers implicated, who would I go to?

Vice President?
President?

Keep in mind I am not fully sure of the chain of command above Operations manager, and normally would not even be concerned about it. I mean, it appears that the ops mgrs are fairly independent dealing with their accounts.

I guess the best is to keep cool and do the job. Maybe I will bring it to the attention of someone after I leave.

Here is to getting a new job.

[Bill Warnock Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bill Warnock]

There again, I have no proof. I have no way to get proof. All I have is hearsay and rumor. Nothing to make a case on. Having seen how rumor is spread thru this and other companies, I can't see going to any other organization with only that.

I mean, I can see where there may be as many as 5 supervisors involved in this so far, and if true, it is probably rampant. three levels above me in the chain of command.

level one Guard
level two Lead Guard
level three shift supervisor (me)
level four site supervisor
level five assistant manager
level six operations manager

So with at least two operations managers implicated, who would I go to?

Vice President?
President?

Keep in mind I am not fully sure of the chain of command above Operations manager, and normally would not even be concerned about it. I mean, it appears that the ops mgrs are fairly independent dealing with their accounts.

I guess the best is to keep cool and do the job. Maybe I will bring it to the attention of someone after I leave.

Here is to getting a new job.

If you believe those in the chain are "dirty," your best bet is to still contact the IRS with your suspicions. Tell the other person on hotline just what you have stated in your email. They may already have had another call. All the IRS needs is a loose thread.
From what you have described, these folks are slimy; as such they give the security industry a black eye.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[guard3725 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close guard3725]

About a year ago it turned out that one of our area managers were "Cooking" the books, having fake guards covering posts then pocketing the cash. He eventually got caught out after putting a guy through for two sites at the same time. Turned out he had been putting guys through for about 90 hours a week when they had worked 40 and splitting the extra cash.
Turned sour after one of the guys he was dealing with was thrown out of a store for drugs use and sacked. Needless to say he blew the whistle on the whole thing. In total about twenty were sacked and the manager taken to court.
If you look hard enough you'll find stuff like this in a lot of places. Sometimes its greed, other times it is because it's the only way it can be done.
I've been paid off the books myself but it was only short term until the paperwork got processed.