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Age Discrimination???

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  • jeff194307
    replied
    I very much doubt that the HR could put my mind at ease because that is the person who made the discriminatory remark to the client.

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  • rentacop
    replied
    I don’t know the laws in your state but here in Canada I was a Grievance Officer for the Canadian Government's Union. I represented people in court before the Canada Labour Board for wrongfully treated and terminated employees.

    If the situation was here there is a very important factor that gets added into the equation. Given your age are you capable of performing the duties of a supervisor? If you have researched the position and you feel you can do every task without fear of self injury (such as a heart attack from running) then you would have a case. First thing I would do is obtain the job outline of the position and then take that job outline to your family doctor. If your doctor feels you can perform all of the tasks have him write you a letter stating such. Take that letter to your HR Representative and ask them why you were excluded from the position due to what you believe is age discrimination.

    If there were other reasons for the college kid getting the job then I'm sure your HR Representative will tell you the reasons which will put your mind more as ease.

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  • S/O245
    replied
    Here is what i feel on age of officers. As long as you can do the job (duty) than i see no problem in a older person being a officer or any other rank. And with you having so much experience I would rather have you as my CO than a young person just fresh out of training. My patrol supervisors ages are various. Some are my age 20's others 30's one is 40 something one is 50 and one is 60 something. They all have great experience. So age i just dont think has anything to do with what you can do. But i will tell you that i have always looked up to older officers who have more experience than me because i can learn things from them. Also they can learn things from younger guys.

    When I took my CCW training 3 of the instructors were retired police officers/Mil. Most of the instructors were retired officers or at least experience in firearms pretty good. But those 3 retired officers taught me things i never even thought about before. I felt really good about chosing target world for my training course. Those veteran ret officers really know what they were talking about. And they also lived through the war stories to prove it.

    Stay Safe All

    And good luck sir with everything. I wish you the best in your duty.

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  • mike booth
    replied
    Interesting, could be age discrimination, or that could be a red herring. What is the new supervisor getting paid? What was the old supervisor getting paid? What do you get paid? What would they have to pay you as supervisor? Would it be more than they pay the new kid?

    Age equals experience, but who needs an experienced supervisor as long as you are helping with your experience? The only guard force that needs experienced supervisors is a start up, dysfuntional, or in transition. If I had your talent, experience and training I would be spending my time and energy looking for a job that needs me and would pay me what I'm worth and be fun. I would be doing something positive. Fighting a legal battle is too negative on too many levels.
    Last edited by mike booth; 10-12-2006, 07:34 PM.

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  • jeff194307
    replied
    Thank you Mr. Dickerson. I am doing exactlely what you said, but if these so called management people place another inexperienced person ahead of me when my present supervisor quits next June, I believe that will be the straw that broke the camel's back. If that should happen, I will file on them. State law gives me 300 days to decide, and June 1st is well within the limit. I have every statement documented and will proceed if needed even though I don't really want to.

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  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Originally posted by jeff194307
    Thanks guys, I will continue to do as I have been doing. That is helping my supervisor when he runs into things that only experience can let one know how to handle things. Those of us that are assigned here have a very good working relationship and we tend to complement each other, so it ia a fun place to work, even though we work a lot more on our jobs here then say an industrial post does. This site requires that you be able to think on your feet, which not everyone is able to do, but all of the assigned officers seem to have that ability.
    Jeff,

    I think you have received great advise from the forum. Although I'm not an attorney, I believe you have a strong case with the EEOC. The question is, I guess, how do you want to spend the rest of your career? In a legal dispute, or doing what you love. I say that as a guy only about five years behind you.

    You can make a positive contribution every day of the week. I know you enjoy that, and well you should. You have worked hard to get to this point and most around you recognize your wisdom even though they may not express it. What comes to you as a natural reaction, takes brain wrenching time on their part.

    I can't advise you because you because I don't walk in your shoes. However, imagining myself in the scenerio you described, I would continue to do my best and relish the ride home every day as I reflected on how I helped the client/company/organization without even having to think about it!!

    I would not let the ignorance of a few negate that which you have worked hard for over many years. That is yours, don't let let them take that from you. Good luck, my friend.

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I believe it. The only good thing about not being hired at one of those companies is that you wouldn't want to work there anyhow under those circumstances. ("you" meaning someone who actually cares)
    Mr. Security that is exactly my point. I had an experience after having written up a government agency supervising a guard contract. At my out briefing the other government agency, not Justice, representative excoriated me for having written up such a finding. He ended up his tirade by asking, "What lunatic asked you to do that?"
    From the group of the assembled, came a lone voice, "I did!"
    Without looking carefully at the person making that statement, said, "And just who the hell are you?"
    "I am the chief judge of ------, that's who I am."
    There was no response. Later I was told the judge and the other man had a heart-to-heart talk. The respondent was quoted as saying, "Nobody has ever looked that closely at the special orders before, why did he?"
    "Because I asked his boss to send him," was the response.
    Fun was had by all!
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill Warnock
    Mr. Security:
    In many instances, some of these companies tend to go for the inexperienced in that the experienced would know where to look and perhaps find something that neither the company or the client would like to see light of day.
    The inexperienced also don't push the "envelope" because they don't know where it is. Many clients purposefully have the companies write ambiguous orders so the client can have it both ways, after all the security person is a most expendable commodity.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    I believe it. The only good thing about not being hired at one of those companies is that you wouldn't want to work there anyhow under those circumstances. ("you" meaning someone who actually cares)

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    My site-supervisor is your age, and so are many of the "brass" at the local PD. Your current site-supervisor should speak to the powers that be again and convince them that they are making a mistake due to the vast experience that you bring to the table. I would hire you in a heartbeat. Save the legal maneuvering as a last resort. It's costly, and even if you win, the working environment will be hostile.
    Mr. Security:
    In many instances, some of these companies tend to go for the inexperienced in that the experienced would know where to look and perhaps find something that neither the company or the client would like to see light of day.
    The inexperienced also don't push the "envelope" because they don't know where it is. Many clients purposefully have the companies write ambiguous orders so the client can have it both ways, after all the security person is a most expendable commodity.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Nonsense

    My site-supervisor is your age, and so are many of the "brass" at the local PD. Your current site-supervisor should speak to the powers that be again and convince them that they are making a mistake due to the vast experience that you bring to the table. I would hire you in a heartbeat. Save the legal maneuvering as a last resort. It's costly, and even if you win, the working environment will be hostile.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff194307
    replied
    I thought that I might have a claim. I will keep working until the supervisor graduates, I have 300 days in this state to file a claim.

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  • SD Security
    replied
    Like N.A. Corbier said you do have a legitimate EEOC claim. The company is in violation of Title V11 of the Civil Right's Act of 1964. The EEOC is a federal agency. Depending on what state you are in you also could take the matter to a State authority. I live in CA and we have some of the toughest discrimination laws in the country.

    I disagree that you should continue to work and hope that you get the position. The company needs to be shown that what they have done is illegal and cannot be accepted. If not they will keep treating people in this unethical way.

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by jeff194307
    Thanks guys, I will continue to do as I have been doing. That is helping my supervisor when he runs into things that only experience can let one know how to handle things. Those of us that are assigned here have a very good working relationship and we tend to complement each other, so it ia a fun place to work, even though we work a lot more on our jobs here then say an industrial post does. This site requires that you be able to think on your feet, which not everyone is able to do, but all of the assigned officers seem to have that ability.
    jeff194307:
    At our local Wal-Mart we have two retired Marine Corps gentlemen who work as "greeters," one a mustang major the other a gunny. We had somewhile back a group of toughs who thought they could steal merchandise and run past some employees and these two greeters. They managed to knock down or push aside three young muscular men, one of whom was a security person and a woman. The greeters witnessed this and when the toughs tried to run past them they paused to express their disdain at the "geezers." Within seconds three of the four were on the ground. One tough got his first flying lesson albeit short with a crash landing. The fourth ran into two newly minted county police officers.
    In this instance, age and cunning prevailed.
    The Retired Marines, after giving statements to the police, looked at each other, grinned and in unison said, "Wasn't that was fun, just like the old days."
    The young officers smiled in appreciation and the witnesses started to clap.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill, AF15556595. How's that for age and memory?

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff194307
    replied
    Thanks guys, I will continue to do as I have been doing. That is helping my supervisor when he runs into things that only experience can let one know how to handle things. Those of us that are assigned here have a very good working relationship and we tend to complement each other, so it ia a fun place to work, even though we work a lot more on our jobs here then say an industrial post does. This site requires that you be able to think on your feet, which not everyone is able to do, but all of the assigned officers seem to have that ability.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    The client cannot be queried if they have a perference for "an old guy." This is classic age discrimination. They can be queried, "Do you have any specific physical fitness requirements for this post." They can be queried, "Do you have any specific training for this post." They can even be queried, "Do you have any specific experience requirements for this post."

    But asking, "Do you have a problem with the old guy working here" is illegal. You have the grounds for an EEOC case against the employer for violating your civil rights - but only if you can prove the conversation took place.

    As to the supervisor position, the EEOC requires that make promotion/demotion/counseling decisions based on factors of "right for the job," not age or any other protected status. If the EEOC decides that you were better qualified for the position, and your age was the deciding factor, then you have a case. However, most companies do not keep the suggested paperwork to avoid such decisions.

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