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  • #16
    I'm a real guard and you're not! Get over it!
    "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ARealCop
      Sorry, I'm not. That is not my intention at all. I don't get "kicks" on that. I get kicks on kicking butt and taking names at my place of work. I work fine with decent security officers...though they are rare.

      Seriously though, you mentioned working fine with "decent" security personnel. What made this person decent? What qualities did these rare people have that were professional and admirable? What were they doing right?
      "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 1stWatch
        Seriously though, you mentioned working fine with "decent" security personnel. What made this person decent? What qualities did these rare people have that were professional and admirable? What were they doing right?

        Those officers I mentioned had a sharp overall appearance, appeared to be decently educated, carried themselves well, had neat grooming, and a pressed uniform, weren't very overwieght, didn't act like they were cops/had all kinds of authority/were Superman, didn't act like geeky wanna-be cops, didn't try and exert any sort of police authority that they didn't have, & treated people with respect. Basically, some of the same qualities a good police officer has.

        Look, I am not here to pick on security guards. I was a security guard in college, while obtaining my degree in Law Enforcement Technology. I know what it's like, and I also know about a lot of people you guys work with. And they are not very impressive. Low standards, low pay, and little to no authority in the position, are the reasons for that.
        [B]Security + Police = one good teamB]

        Comment


        • #19
          heads up

          Everytime we get a sworn LEO on here, we tend to get a bit of attacks. These will not be accepted.

          Folks, let me put it in simple terms: Many LEOs have worked security. Many security guards have worked as LEOs and/or are seeking to land employment in that field. Remember that your positions are collaborative. Yes, there are many differences and there has been a culture of disdain, but please put this behind you.

          There is much to learn from each other, and much will be learned if we stay away from personal attacks and focus instead on trying to gather the gems of information each field has.

          Thank you,
          Geoff Kohl, editor
          SecurityInfoWatch.com

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ARealCop
            Those officers I mentioned had a sharp overall appearance, appeared to be decently educated, carried themselves well, had neat grooming, and a pressed uniform, weren't very overwieght, didn't act like they were cops/had all kinds of authority/were Superman, didn't act like geeky wanna-be cops, didn't try and exert any sort of police authority that they didn't have, & treated people with respect. Basically, some of the same qualities a good police officer has.

            Look, I am not here to pick on security guards. I was a security guard in college, while obtaining my degree in Law Enforcement Technology. I know what it's like, and I also know about a lot of people you guys work with. And they are not very impressive. Low standards, low pay, and little to no authority in the position, are the reasons for that.

            Ah, so the geeky wanna-be cops were actually not like people trying to be cops at all, but more like socially deficient individuals with poor hygiene and obsessive compulsive tendencies. Sounds like a lot of the same things I complain about.

            Moderator: ty for the "heads up". No offense taken so far. Hopefully not given.
            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by SIW Editor
              Everytime we get a sworn LEO on here, we tend to get a bit of attacks. These will not be accepted.

              Folks, let me put it in simple terms: Many LEOs have worked security. Many security guards have worked as LEOs and/or are seeking to land employment in that field. Remember that your positions are collaborative. Yes, there are many differences and there has been a culture of disdain, but please put this behind you.

              There is much to learn from each other, and much will be learned if we stay away from personal attacks and focus instead on trying to gather the gems of information each field has.

              Thank you,
              Geoff Kohl, editor
              SecurityInfoWatch.com
              Well said; Amen

              To REAL COP: We have a great LEO who is a member on this site. He goes by the name TENNSIX. He joined this site because he knows that there are great people in LE and Security. He is willing to work with LEO's and S/O's who need to change their view of each other and perhaps their conduct. If you really want to help, why not speak with the security officers who are trying to act like cops? If you can develop a rapport with them, some may listen to you and change. If so, we both win. Are you willing to try it?
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                If you really want to help, why not speak with the security officers who are trying to act like cops? If you can develop a rapport with them, some may listen to you and change. If so, we both win. Are you willing to try it?

                Absolutely! But it is hard when little turds send me private messages like Zebra One did:

                "Hey, ****er, what are you doing?"

                "What the **** are you doing in here?"

                I have offered to solve the problem the only way I know to at this point. If he doesn't like that, then he should shut up.
                [B]Security + Police = one good teamB]

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ARealCop
                  Those officers I mentioned had a sharp overall appearance, appeared to be decently educated, carried themselves well, had neat grooming, and a pressed uniform, weren't very overwieght, didn't act like they were cops/had all kinds of authority/were Superman, didn't act like geeky wanna-be cops, didn't try and exert any sort of police authority that they didn't have, & treated people with respect. Basically, some of the same qualities a good police officer has.

                  Look, I am not here to pick on security guards. I was a security guard in college, while obtaining my degree in Law Enforcement Technology. I know what it's like, and I also know about a lot of people you guys work with. And they are not very impressive. Low standards, low pay, and little to no authority in the position, are the reasons for that.
                  So, you understand how we, who try our best to stay away from the movie/slob guard sterotype and cop-wanabees, feel - and still, your first post is to attack all of us. Thanks loads guy.

                  On the other side of the coin..........

                  Ok, I think I know where you're coming from so I'll back off. We, ourselves, get aggravated at these idiots and, occasionally, lash out generally, as you did. I posted the following several days ago but removed it....

                  "This is the true story of Bob, the Weirdo Security Guy. Although the story is true, ?Bob?, is a fictitious name cause I?m afraid he would sue me if I used his real name which is Gary Chavez. Anyway, Bob, is one of those guys who thinks being a Security Guard is hot poop ? Bob, thinks he?s a cop. Bob even drives an old used cop car. He doesn?t have a license to carry a gun but he wears a holster ? one of those kind with the flap that snaps over the top so you can?t see there?s no gun in there. Bob, also, wears an asp, pepper spray and handcuffs on his duty belt, none of which he is certified to carry. Bob likes to strut around and act tough and is gonna get his ass beat, one of these days. A cop?s job is to ?serve and protect.? A Security Guard?s job is to ?observe and report.? Bob has them mixed up. If you have been in Security for any length of time, like a week or more, you have probably met Bob. Here?s the deal. If you wanna be a cop, then go be a cop. If you wanna be a hot poop Security Guard, then go away ? you?re giving us all a bad name."

                  The point is, we know who you're talking about but would appreciate not being lumped in with them.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by UncleDooly
                    I posted the following several days ago but removed it....

                    "This is the true story of Bob, the Weirdo Security Guy. Although the story is true, ?Bob?, is a fictitious name cause I?m afraid he would sue me if I used his real name which is Gary Chavez. Anyway, Bob, is one of those guys who thinks being a Security Guard is hot poop ? Bob, thinks he?s a cop. Bob even drives an old used cop car. He doesn?t have a license to carry a gun but he wears a holster ? one of those kind with the flap that snaps over the top so you can?t see there?s no gun in there. Bob, also, wears an asp, pepper spray and handcuffs on his duty belt, none of which he is certified to carry. Bob likes to strut around and act tough and is gonna get his ass beat, one of these days. A cop?s job is to ?serve and protect.? A Security Guard?s job is to ?observe and report.? Bob has them mixed up. If you have been in Security for any length of time, like a week or more, you have probably met Bob. Here?s the deal. If you wanna be a cop, then go be a cop. If you wanna be a hot poop Security Guard, then go away ? you?re giving us all a bad name."

                    The point is, we know who you're talking about but would appreciate not being lumped in with them.


                    Good post. I've met plenty of "Bob's." Glad you guys aren't that way.
                    [B]Security + Police = one good teamB]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sup, Terminator. I'll PM you on RP, just for giggles, now that I know your a real person and not a troll.

                      As far as the rest of it. I feel inclined to look up Gary's FL licenses to see what he has, and if he has any previous or pending action.

                      Now, that said. Something to remember is that it totally depends on who you are working for, and what you are doing, as to what your job is. There are several companies, all over the US, that if you only "observe and report," you will go to jail, lose your home, and probally end up on the wrong side of a 1983 suit, just like a police officer.

                      This is because the company you are working for is contracted to protect life and property. It is a fact, companies are contracted TO protect people and property. Especially in Florida, the most litigious state I know of, not knowing what your post requirements and limitations are will get you sued.

                      A company in Florida was sued, and lost the suit, because there was an expectation of protecting people, and the guard was told that his job was to protect property only. This was a hospital, and the guard did nothing to prevent or interfere with a rape, only called 911. The woman won the suit.

                      In other states, the job of security IS to protect and serve. Look at Wisconsin, with these companies that lease security police officers, off duty police officers, etc. These people wear security company uniforms, but some of them have very real PD and SO badges in their wallet, and posess full police powers while wearing that security company uniform. Even if you don't have full public police powers, you do have several police powers as a private citizen: The power of arrest, the power to use force to arrest, and the power to defend yourself or another from attack.

                      Then we get into Federal contracts, where everything is out the window. Your powers are defined by the contracting authority (See Blackwater USA, who get full auto weapons, etc, and have blanket arrest authority on US soil by blanket deputization). I remember a DEA contract that my former employer bid on. Shoulder mounted weapons (M4A1, Select Fire), 9mm pistols, red and blue lights on a cruiser, etc, federal title 40 arrest authority, etc. The company was even responsible for transporting any prisoners to the county jail to be remanded to a federal magistrate, they were not authorized to call the local police or sheriff to remove them. (That's what killed our bid, that meant having additional personnel to man the post, while the arresting officer transported.)

                      I understand alot of small companies are built largely on filling these niches, such as nuclear security, DEA security, US Customs security, etc.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        Sup, Terminator. I'll PM you on RP, just for giggles, now that I know your a real person and not a troll.

                        As far as the rest of it. I feel inclined to look up Gary's FL licenses to see what he has, and if he has any previous or pending action.

                        Now, that said. Something to remember is that it totally depends on who you are working for, and what you are doing, as to what your job is. There are several companies, all over the US, that if you only "observe and report," you will go to jail, lose your home, and probally end up on the wrong side of a 1983 suit, just like a police officer.

                        This is because the company you are working for is contracted to protect life and property. It is a fact, companies are contracted TO protect people and property. Especially in Florida, the most litigious state I know of, not knowing what your post requirements and limitations are will get you sued.

                        A company in Florida was sued, and lost the suit, because there was an expectation of protecting people, and the guard was told that his job was to protect property only. This was a hospital, and the guard did nothing to prevent or interfere with a rape, only called 911. The woman won the suit.

                        In other states, the job of security IS to protect and serve. Look at Wisconsin, with these companies that lease security police officers, off duty police officers, etc. These people wear security company uniforms, but some of them have very real PD and SO badges in their wallet, and posess full police powers while wearing that security company uniform. Even if you don't have full public police powers, you do have several police powers as a private citizen: The power of arrest, the power to use force to arrest, and the power to defend yourself or another from attack.

                        Then we get into Federal contracts, where everything is out the window. Your powers are defined by the contracting authority (See Blackwater USA, who get full auto weapons, etc, and have blanket arrest authority on US soil by blanket deputization). I remember a DEA contract that my former employer bid on. Shoulder mounted weapons (M4A1, Select Fire), 9mm pistols, red and blue lights on a cruiser, etc, federal title 40 arrest authority, etc. The company was even responsible for transporting any prisoners to the county jail to be remanded to a federal magistrate, they were not authorized to call the local police or sheriff to remove them. (That's what killed our bid, that meant having additional personnel to man the post, while the arresting officer transported.)

                        I understand alot of small companies are built largely on filling these niches, such as nuclear security, DEA security, US Customs security, etc.

                        I agree...and as I explained in my PM on R/P to you, my problems with security officers have mostly been with "contract security," that work at multiple site locations. My frequent contact with the security company that works my city's Government Housing Authority (Section 8) Apartment Complex's doesn't help my opinion. They are sloppy and awful. Since we interact with them so frequently, it really puts a bad name on those individual officers, the security company, and on the whole field (just like it might in police work). It's pretty bad when one of the guards sits in one of your police substations in an apartment complex (they have their own office in our substation) and watches tv and reads all shift. Then they come into work in a uniform shirt, a pair of nasty blue jeans as uniform pants, and boots....WTF??? Not too mention they refuse to do anything. Last time I had to go over to one of our Section 8 Apartment's, a lady complained a guy's music was too loud, so she told the security guard. He told her to just call the cops, 'cause that's all he was gonna do anyway...jeez.
                        Last edited by ARealCop; 11-15-2005, 05:21 PM.
                        [B]Security + Police = one good teamB]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hi guys,

                          I know I am new here but I'm going to throw in my two. Until I came to this site I didn't realize there was such a heated thing between LEOs and SOs. Many of my friends are sworn LEOs and we get along just fine. We both know our roles and can learn a bit from each others experiences. Sure, they give me the old "why are you playing in the minors when you could be in the majors?" I laugh it off...and throw in a few jokes of my own. It is all in fun. Out in rural areas security duties are very different than in large populated areas. I am responsible for maintaining a sense of order in my community so that the local LE (which is light due to budget cuts) can attend to things that they are trained to handle and enforce. There is no who is better or worse....we both have a job to do. I handle myself professionally and with the amount of authority that the situation warrants, no more no less. Hats off to all of you that get the job done and keep people safe no matter what your badge says.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ARealCop
                            I agree...and as I explained in my PM on R/P to you, my problems with security officers have mostly been with "contract security," that work at multiple site locations. My frequent contact with the security company that works my city's Government Housing Authority (Section 8) Apartment Complex's doesn't help my opinion. They are sloppy and awful. Since we interact with them so frequently, it really puts a bad name on those individual officers, the security company, and on the whole field (just like it might in police work). It's pretty bad when one of the guards sits in one of your police substations in an apartment complex (they have their own office in our substation) and watches tv and reads all shift. Then they come into work in a uniform shirt, a pair of nasty blue jeans as uniform pants, and boots....WTF??? Not too mention they refuse to do anything. Last time I had to go over to one of our Section 8 Apartment's, a lady complained a guy's music was too loud, so she told the security guard. He told her to just call the cops, 'cause that's all he was gonna do anyway...jeez.
                            Dude. I will not only fire someone for that, I will take PICTURES, and make a powerpoint out of it "How to lose your job and piss your employer off royally enough that you lose your license." Things like that destroy credibility (obviously), and generally make everyone look bad (obviously), and worse:

                            Imagine the company that replaces them. That place will be totally out of control, because they'll be used to the idiots out there.

                            As far as "Security can't do anything about noise complaints," that's a malfunction of the client management company. When I knocked on a door in Section 8 housing, that was the first warning. It was written up in the log book. Next time was an incident report, and we didn't leave till we spoke to the registered leasee, who was informed if we come back again, its with the police who will write a ticket (Not warn), and they will be referred to management for eviction.

                            Leasees learn quick: If you fail to follow your lease rules, you will be evicted. No ifs, ands, or buts, that the way HUD wants Section 8 to work. You get a 7 day notice to cure. If you screw up in 6 to 12 months after that, good night, your evicted, lose Section 8 benefits for 1 year.

                            We were feared more than the police. Police take away your freedom, security takes away your home.
                            Last edited by N. A. Corbier; 11-15-2005, 06:24 PM.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ARealCop
                              Absolutely! But it is hard when little turds send me private messages like ........did:
                              Good. I'm glad to hear it. As far as unkind remarks by some S/O's, why not let it roll off "like water off a duck's back?" You can't change everyone. Besides, as you already know, you need to have a tough exterior to make it as a LEO because of the disrespect that comes with the job. When people call you names, you just ignore it and move on.
                              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                                Good. I'm glad to hear it. As far as unkind remarks by some S/O's, why not let it roll off "like water off a duck's back?" You can't change everyone. Besides, as you already know, you need to have a tough exterior to make it as a LEO because of the disrespect that comes with the job. When people call you names, you just ignore it and move on.
                                Much like when someone's signature continues to inform you that your position is far below theirs and advises you to "deal with it."

                                Comment

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