Weapons Warning

[davis002]

Belt Buckle Knife

Troopers from the Bordentown Station of the New Jersey State Police conducted a motor vehicle stop in late February on Interstate 295 and arrested a male from Trenton, New Jersey. The subject was wearing a leather belt with a metal buckle that upon closer inspection, contained a removable folding knife.

Two other males, who arrived at the station later to post bail for the subject, were wearing the same buckles with the knives removed prior to their arrival.

Source: Calibre Press

[EMTGuard]

That's a pretty nice looking buckle. I wouldn't mind having one.

[S/O245]

Yeah looks pretty nice. Would be nice for self defense etc.

Now by me saying self defense i mean for lawful people. Anything wil be abused by criminals. Criminals use knifes alot to attack people. But im just saying its looks nice.

One rule always assume everyone is possible to be armed with something. That way you never let your guard down.

Stay Safe All

[N. A. Corbier]

Just remember, you'd need a concealed carry license for that item, I'd think. Its definately a concealed weapon, and not a tool.

[EMTGuard]

Just remember, you'd need a concealed carry license for that item, I'd think. Its definately a concealed weapon, and not a tool.

Depends on where you are wearing it. Around here it would be viewed no differently than a folding Buck knife worn on a scabard on your belt or clipped in your pocket. The buckle is nothing more than the Scabbard/Holster for carrying that particular knife. As long as you surrender it as you would any other knife when entering certain restricted areas (jails, courthouses, etc) you probably wouldn't have a problem where I live.
Of course, everywhere you go will have different laws. Some States/Cities may be more restrictive in what they consider to be Legal carry.
I know a couple of people who wear similar buckles and like them. A quick Google search will turn up several examples of these types of item.

http://www.imperialweapons.com/knives/2027-gt.html

http://www.belt-buckle-knife.com/

http://www.knivesplus.com/katz-kz-mcbuc.html

http://www.rackrat.com/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=264&osCsid=72f6b3f76d408e2a2862d58498628606

[S/O245]

I dont need a knife I have a CCW LOL. But im not sure how the ohio law the state im in would be on that. I think the Ohio law says the blade cant be longer than 3.5 inches. TI dont know what the law on a knife in Indiana is.

Stay Safe All

[EMTGuard]

I have a CCW also and I always have a knive with me. Too many things it can be used for to not have one with you.

[S/O245]

I use to have a small knife on me as long as the blade is not so long im pretty sure as the officers told me before its legal. But sometimes when im carrying and then i have a cell phone and other stuff. I always carry Pepper Spray a bunch of us S/O's carry right now the smaller OC that can go on ur keys it had a little button then can release it from the key ring. I carry that and when off duty when i carry CCW i have pepper spray with me. They are working on letting us carry the MkIII Pepper Spray on the belt etc. But they just been workin on it for what a yr now LOL.

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[N. A. Corbier]

I use to have a small knife on me as long as the blade is not so long im pretty sure as the officers told me before its legal. But sometimes when im carrying and then i have a cell phone and other stuff. I always carry Pepper Spray a bunch of us S/O's carry right now the smaller OC that can go on ur keys it had a little button then can release it from the key ring. I carry that and when off duty when i carry CCW i have pepper spray with me. They are working on letting us carry the MkIII Pepper Spray on the belt etc. But they just been workin on it for what a yr now LOL.

Stay Safe All

Question: Why can you carry MK6 "personal," but not MK3 "duty?" Most state laws state that you can carry up to a specific size, period. If its because you require certified in OC before carrying it, has the state specifically authorized "personal defense spray" units? Usually state requirements are for OC period, not a specific type of container. Ie: You still get in trouble for using it if its MK6 or MK3.

[davido]

re

this belt buckle is better


here is the link to get this buckle knife
www.alloway-giftshop.com/ knives.html

http://www.cheapjunk.com/China/index4.html

almost all the way down on this last link 4.75 each

[S/O245]

I dont carry MkIII as of yet intill they decide when they are going to get the policy done. I hear they have been talking it over for over a yr now and the rest of us that have to be out on posts etc just shake our heads and laugh. I dont know why its taking so long. I dont agree with it but im not the people incharge.

All i will say is i know of many S/O's in security jobs that some carry personal size in his/her pocket like the ones that go on the keys. I use to carry at my last assignment alot. But i guess it depends on where you are at. Many are not certified because his/her security comp wont give the training. And i would guess you would probably be fired if you used it for defense and are not "certified" but if they fire you for defending your self or others I would think you could take the court way. A S/O is a citizen correct ? They are not a Sworn LEO. So why does the law state 18 to buy and carry for citizens which a S/O is not a Sworn LEO. I can tell you that many of my higher up ranks have told many guys that they can carry if they want in the pocket etc. Personal size not MkIII on the belt. I just think you have to let someone carry some option. a Flashlight is not enough. I just think more should be allowed to have the same rights that the avg joe has. We are not below people ? But thats how they treat us. Im not saying everyone should have a firearm etc. Not everyone wants a armed job. They just need to let us defend our selfs better. But thats just me how i think on defense purposes.

Stay Safe All

[N. A. Corbier]

I dont carry MkIII as of yet intill they decide when they are going to get the policy done. I hear they have been talking it over for over a yr now and the rest of us that have to be out on posts etc just shake our heads and laugh. I dont know why its taking so long. I dont agree with it but im not the people incharge.

All i will say is i know of many S/O's in security jobs that some carry personal size in his/her pocket like the ones that go on the keys. I use to carry at my last assignment alot. But i guess it depends on where you are at. Many are not certified because his/her security comp wont give the training. And i would guess you would probably be fired if you used it for defense and are not "certified" but if they fire you for defending your self or others I would think you could take the court way. A S/O is a citizen correct ? They are not a Sworn LEO. So why does the law state 18 to buy and carry for citizens which a S/O is not a Sworn LEO. I can tell you that many of my higher up ranks have told many guys that they can carry if they want in the pocket etc. Personal size not MkIII on the belt. I just think you have to let someone carry some option. a Flashlight is not enough. I just think more should be allowed to have the same rights that the avg joe has. We are not below people ? But thats how they treat us. Im not saying everyone should have a firearm etc. Not everyone wants a armed job. They just need to let us defend our selfs better. But thats just me how i think on defense purposes.

Stay Safe All

Actually, most states that have licensing , not companies, require that security officers be certified in the weapons they carry. I know that in Wisconsin, you may not go armed with any weapon without LE certification. This means that while a private citizen may carry pepper spray, a security officer may NOT, unless they are certified to an acknoledged level. Same for ASP, handcuffs, etc.

Most state credentialing agencies will tell you, flat out, that they require such to protect the public from security guards carrying dangerous devices which they may use against the public. Your right as a private citizen, balanced by the state's requirement to protect the public against dangerous employees.

I know that in Florida, the onus was on the employee to seek certification, however, certification was not required for use. BUT, the caveat, was that the Florida Division of Licensing WILL prosecute Chapter 493 charges against any licensed employee who misuses any item they carry, including pepper spray, and will file civil suit, as well. Not being certified with the OC can be considered misuse, if the employee uses the OC in a manner inconsistant with proper manufacturer certfiication programs.

Its not really "the company will fire you," its "the state will go after you."

[S/O245]

Yeah they could do that. One thing is I dont even know where to go to get certified on in for ohio and my comp has been talking about it for a yr now. I did talk to a retired police LT that has his own buisness now he teaches martial arts and teaches baton and pepper spray etc. I could call him up again cause i remember him telling me he could get me certified in OC.

But what im saying is if a S/O would carry a personal size oc and and he/she used if for defense say it was proven that he was correct to use it would the state still take his/her license away because they are not certified ? But my thing is if a judge said he was right to use it for defense then the state says u did wrong and takes it would that not open up more things in court. Because the court of law just said u were right to use it and had to use it to protect your self. Then the states comes along and says u should have not had it or used it.

Another thing i hate is I have CCW also if u have the firearm un loaded and in the trunk its ok by law also i think our ohio ccw law says right now u can carry or have it in the glove box. And a provision says it must be plain site when carrying ccw. Which they are trying to get rid of that provision. Our wonderful Gov Bob Taft who is now a convicted of a crime wanted that provision in the law lol. But my assignment is un armed. But i still think even if un armed post i should be able to store it in my trunk so i can carry on the way home when im off duty. I live in not such a good city as i said before and we have even recieved threats from known drug users and dealers etc. They have had family convited for beating a ban with a ball bat came close to killing the man. Like i said i feel i should be able to carryon the way home. Because my 2nd amendment rights are being violated because im forced to leave it at home. And when im rolling through the worst area of the city that have alot of drugs and some gang members running around my gun being at home aint any good to me. Its not as much crime as city of cincinnati but we do have some drugs and gangs. And crime has even droped since we had ccw. It droped 13% in the city of cincy. And droped in Ohio State.

Stay Safe All

[N. A. Corbier]

This is a classic case of the state protecting the general public from "dangerous practices." Lets go with Florida, and magically pass a law that says that you cannot carry OC if you are a licensed security officer unless certified by a recongized authority trained to Department of Criminal Justice Training and Standards. (An MSI OC Instructor.)

Your company prohibits carrying MK3, MK4, etc OC on your duty rig. You carry a concealed keyring sized can of OC on your keys. You discharge this, protecting yourself from a violent confrontation, while performing your duties as a licensed security officer, on client property and in uniform.

The police report taken is not referred for prosecution, as the officers investigating it found it justified. However, the company refers your case to the Division of Licensing, Department of Ag/ComSer, for enforcement. A state inspector (Bureau of Enforcement Agent, ie: State Officer), brings a misdomeanor charge against you, and an injunction against your further working till a state board can revoke your security officer license.

Why? Because, you are acting in the capacity of a security officer, a regulated profession. When you were given your license, you agreed to govern yourself by those regulations. One of those regulations (It dosen't even have to be a law, just an admininstrative regulation) states you must be certified to carry any weapon or less-lethal device.

When your off the clock, your a private citizen. When your on the clock, working in a regulated profession, you willfully submit yourself to state authority.

As far as the CCW... Most states provide that the weapon is accessable by you (Your carrying the keys to the trunk), therefore, you are armed, and have the POSSIBILITY of retrieving the weapon and using it in the performance of your duties. Since you are not subjecting yourself to the licensing requirement, or if you have, your client has not specifically contracted for armed security services, you are in violation of administrative code.

The states seem to, generally, look at firearms for security like this. The client dictates, in writing, to the company that they want a gun or multiple guns on property. The state can't stop them, as the property owner has the right to arm their employees (Save in a few select cities) in their steed. The state argues that since they're purchasing services which include the application of deadly force when needed, the state had best regulate those services for the good of us all. Since your on a property, providing services, and you have access to a weapon, you now have the ability to provide a service the client dosen't want - deploying deadly force.

Most state firearms licensing for security is designed to do one thing: Restrict where persons who work in the field may openly carry weapons.

Take your uniform shirt off, put a jacket over it, make yourself NOT look like a licensed and regulated professional. Your CCW should then apply again, without having to go before a judge in a criminal proceeding to have him verify it applied in the first place. Its perception. Uniform = On Duty.

[DMS 525]

Hidden knife belt buckles go back as far as the cowboy days. There has always been this kind of belt buckle that looks like a "Sam Browne" belt buckle, but when pulled out, contains a 4 inch double edged knife! In another case, there was a belt buckle, which was nothing but a belt buckle, but the creep wearing it had one corner of it sharpened like a razor! Cut an officer up with it pretty bad before he was overpowered. One reason among many why no jail prisoner is allowed to keep his belt.

As for a gun in a buckle, North American Arms has this little 6 shot .22 Magnum revolver, not even 3" long. Fits in this belt buckle, and at the touch of a button, falls right into your hand. And a .22 Magnum can do a nasty number on a person. Some may spot it as a real gun right away, while others may dismiss it as a novelty.

Remember: Just about anything can be used for a weapon. And anyone can be a deadly assailant. Be careful out there.