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  • #16
    Don't doubt yourself..you can do it!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tennsix
      You mean they have outlaw skateboard gangs?
      No, that would be Santa Rosa. Novato has outlaw rollerskate gangs (ORGs).
      As far as membership goes they will not recruit in-line skaters..only rollerskaters.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The_Mayor
        No, that would be Santa Rosa. Novato has outlaw rollerskate gangs (ORGs).
        As far as membership goes they will not recruit in-line skaters..only rollerskaters.
        Correct me if i'm wrong, but awhile back didn't you say you work at a mall that is in a gang-infested? I thought it was Novato or something with you being in the North Bay. What type of gang activity do you encounter at the mall? Any idea what gang(s) are involved (GD, VL, Bloods, Etc.)?
        "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tennsix
          Perhaps he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
          I got one up on him, then. I worked at a Holiday Inn, and a Hampton Inn, AND a Days Inn, all on one patrol account!

          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Tennsix
            There is no such requirement in Indiana. Could you elaborate?

            Actually, Indiana has no mandated secuirty officer training. LEO's that work security, In Indiana, are still consider police officers and are authorized to use their police powers.
            Sure. Some states mandate that a private security officer is not a sworn law enforcement officer, and may not carry on their public authority, when working for a private security company, nor are they sworn law enforcement officers until they clearly identify themselves as such to a subject. Florida law, for example, makes this very clear.

            I use this to explain why: You have a skateboarder, or a bar drunk. You are an off-duty deputy sheriff, who is employed as a security officer. You are wearing your security company uniform, with your security company badge. You are not displaying any badge or credential of public office.

            You take enforcement action against the person, and they strike you. You then take them to the ground, and arrest them for battery on a law enforcement officer, as you are an off duty law enforcement officer.

            The State of Florida has found that you are indeed NOT a deputy sheriff in a security company uniform, you are a private security officer. You must clearly identify your public authority, before the attack, or before your arrest, or else you are being attacked or taking action as a private citizen.

            This was found by the State, because there was a serious amount of deputies and off duty police officers who would wear a security company uniform, get into trouble, and then kick some ass as trained, and inform the bad guy after the fact they hit a cop and are going for it.

            As far as the firearms certification: Several states have required firearms courses, which consist of study of statute, examination and nomenclature of the authorized firearm, range qualification with the authorized firearm, and legality of private security use of force. Because these courses differ so much from law enforcement training, due to the law enforcement officer having civil and criminal immunity, states feel that the law enforcement officer acting as a private security officer - as a private citizen, must be held to the same standards as other armed private citizens. They must be registered, licensed, and trained in the limitations of their civil rights and criminal immunity for justifable force.

            Now, when you are off-duty, on an agency authorized "short call," working on behalf of the public authority you are sworn by, such as a Sheriff or Chief of Police, you are wearing your police uniform, carrying under color of law, and operating a police vehicle - you are a sworn law enforcement officer, the public knows you are, and most security statues don't apply to you.
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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            • #21
              Originally posted by davis002
              Any idea what gang(s) are involved (GD, VL, Bloods, Etc.)?
              Nortenos and Serrenos.

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              • #22
                LOL you guys still kill me.

                Your damn skippy police training isnt the same as security training. They dont give us a flashlight and show us how to turn it on then set us loose. We actually are trained self defense, fire arms, state law, etc.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by YouWishYou WereMe
                  LOL you guys still kill me.

                  Your damn skippy police training isnt the same as security training. They dont give us a flashlight and show us how to turn it on then set us loose. We actually are trained self defense, fire arms, state law, etc.
                  Actually, in Wisconsin, they do just that.

                  And anyone WONDER why I'm taking about training and standards?
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Sure. Some states mandate that a private security officer is not a sworn law enforcement officer, and may not carry on their public authority, when working for a private security company, nor are they sworn law enforcement officers until they clearly identify themselves as such to a subject. Florida law, for example, makes this very clear.

                    I use this to explain why: You have a skateboarder, or a bar drunk. You are an off-duty deputy sheriff, who is employed as a security officer. You are wearing your security company uniform, with your security company badge. You are not displaying any badge or credential of public office.

                    You take enforcement action against the person, and they strike you. You then take them to the ground, and arrest them for battery on a law enforcement officer, as you are an off duty law enforcement officer.

                    The State of Florida has found that you are indeed NOT a deputy sheriff in a security company uniform, you are a private security officer. You must clearly identify your public authority, before the attack, or before your arrest, or else you are being attacked or taking action as a private citizen.

                    This was found by the State, because there was a serious amount of deputies and off duty police officers who would wear a security company uniform, get into trouble, and then kick some ass as trained, and inform the bad guy after the fact they hit a cop and are going for it.
                    Our company will at times hire licensed officers to work for us on a part-time basis. In order for them to do so, they are required to ok everything with the sheriff/chief of their department before we can employ them.

                    On one occasion one of our officers, of whom was a licensed officer from a metropolitan department, was assaulted by an individual he was arresting for a trespass violation. He deployed chemical spray, took the individual to the ground and placed him in physical restraints.

                    In the state of Minnesota, we have five levels of assault.

                    1. Assault in the First Degree: Great Bodily Harm; Felony
                    2. Assault in the Second Degree: Dangerous Weapon (firearms, knives, glass bottles, etc); Felony
                    3. Assault in the Third Degree: Substantial Bodily Harm; Felony
                    4. Assault in the Fourth Degree: Peace Officers, Firefighters, EMS; Gross Misdemeanor or Felony (Depends on whether or not bodily harm inflicted)
                    5. Assault in the Fifth Degree: commits an act with intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm or death; or intentionally inflicts or attempts to inflict bodily harm upon another. Misdemeanor


                    He arrested the individual for Fifth Degree Assault and Trespassing. Had the same incident occured while he was on-duty as a police officer, he could of then arrested for Fourth Degree Assault.

                    This is due to the fact that while he is on-duty, working for our company he operates under citizens arrest authority. The only benefit he has is the ability to check for warrants much quicker than the rest of us!
                    "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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                    • #25
                      I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

                      So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.


                      What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tennsix
                        Perhaps he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
                        Won't work. Has to be a Holiday Inn Express
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SEOHopeful1
                          I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

                          So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.


                          What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?
                          Each security company has it's own policies, procedures, rank structure, etc. One thing you have to remember about being a security officer is that you are still a private citizen. You can't let the badge get to your head, because you are in fact not a police officer. As far as being armed, I agree that if you work in an area with higher numbers of assaults, robbery, narcotics, etc... you can justify a firearm. You have to remember though, that if you have an armed person in your building YOU CALL THE POLICE. You only clear that building if you are instructed to do so by the dispatcher or responding law enforcement officers.
                          "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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                          • #28
                            Call the police? I'll call my co-workers first to back me up. Then if we can't handle it i'd probably see if the police can back me up.

                            I wouldn never let the badge go to my head, I know my role and I know that I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

                            Mayor says you guys are above the law. Gotta have some authority granted

                            ps. can someone please give me som advise on training and how hard the academy is?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SEOHopeful1
                              I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

                              So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.

                              What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?
                              Correct, you would have to attend the police academy. Generally speaking, law enforcement training is more comprehensive then the average security training. Moreover, a recruit?s training continues beyond the academy. A recruit will have to satisfactorily complete field training too. All said, a police recruit receives about one year of basic training before being cleared to work solo or utilize his powers off-duty.

                              In short, the average security training does not come close to LE standards. Think of it this way. If a fresh out of the academy LEO is not competent enough to jump in a police car go to work, how could a SEO be expected to do it.
                              Last edited by Tennsix; 11-08-2005, 07:10 PM.
                              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                              -Lieutenant Commander Data
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SEOHopeful1
                                Call the police? I'll call my co-workers first to back me up. Then if we can't handle it i'd probably see if the police can back me up.

                                I wouldn never let the badge go to my head, I know my role and I know that I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

                                Mayor says you guys are above the law. Gotta have some authority granted

                                ps. can someone please give me som advise on training and how hard the academy is?
                                Well in most states, the arriving Police Officers would place you and your co-workers under arrest for a number of things, perhaps an obstruction of justice. You always call the police immediately if you have an active shooter on your hands.

                                I don't intend for this to seem rude, but Mayor doesn't understand what he is talking about. We as security officers are NOT above the law. We may have a few minor powers when it comes to private property (trespass violations for instance), but that does not make is better than the police. The police can be your greatest ally but you must first display professionalism, respect, ability, and most importantly common sense.

                                As far as Training and the Academy... Every single company has it's own standards and training programs. The best thing you can do is call them on the phone, and inquire about their hiring standards and expectations.
                                "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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