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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by cnick001
    Another addition to the force continuim is the use of a illumination tool of tactical brightness to temporarily night blind a suspect. In my opinion, this is the best option for security as it allows an officer to incapacitate an individual without the liability of other forces that involve touching them, or causing any pain. Also this illuminates any other threats to the officer.

    On several occassions I have used this to put situations under control which presence and verbal commands could not manage. To date, this has not yet failed me, as our policy is to always call for police assistance when any greater level of force is deemed necessary to completely remedy the situation. However, this works best for security alone, as simply blinding the subject only subdues them temporarily (until your batteries die or you get tired of shining a flashlight at their face), but usually fails to completely remedy any situation where force is necessary.

    Now the only problem is deciding between use of the 90 lumen Gladius strobe, or the 200 lumen beam from my streamlight X20led. The Gladius strobe is more disorienting, but the aluminum body of the Streamlight acts as a ready to use replacement for a PR 24 in a worst case scenario.
    I agree. This is a valuable option for cases where retreat is what the security company and/or law requires, even if you are equipped with OC and a baton.

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  • cnick001
    replied
    Another addition to the force continuim is the use of a illumination tool of tactical brightness to temporarily night blind a suspect. In my opinion, this is the best option for security as it allows an officer to incapacitate an individual without the liability of other forces that involve touching them, or causing any pain. Also this illuminates any other threats to the officer.

    On several occassions I have used this to put situations under control which presence and verbal commands could not manage. To date, this has not yet failed me, as our policy is to always call for police assistance when any greater level of force is deemed necessary to completely remedy the situation. However, this works best for security alone, as simply blinding the subject only subdues them temporarily (until your batteries die or you get tired of shining a flashlight at their face), but usually fails to completely remedy any situation where force is necessary.

    Now the only problem is deciding between use of the 90 lumen Gladius strobe, or the 200 lumen beam from my streamlight X20led. The Gladius strobe is more disorienting, but the aluminum body of the Streamlight acts as a ready to use replacement for a PR 24 in a worst case scenario.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Striking someone as opposed to using it as a restraint device are two seperate things. Like Mr. Security said, it may be effective enough to pull out an ASP and just extend it. That does not necessarily mean I am using a higher force than blasting someone with OC. If I use a PR-24 to snag someone's leg or to use it as a restraint assistance device... still not the same as blasting someone with OC. The baton is a tricky item, in a court-room it can fall under multiple levels of force, regardless of what the armed class teaches.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Remember, Lawson, the State of Washington in their Armed Security Guard class lists baton as Level 4, and OC as Level 3. This is what I'm talking about. Striking someone with a baton if you are not trained is "deadly force," as your using a weapon capable of great bodily harm or death without the proper training to prevent GBH/Death.

    OC has consistantly been proven in the courts to be a "lower level of force" by civilians, which is why you can buy pepper spray at wal-mart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I think it depends on the degree of force one uses with the baton. A whack on the shin or thigh (not a bone-breaking home run swing) might just convince the combative subject that the pain isn't worth the struggle.

    Once the OC is deployed, the pain is going to be intense well after the suspect is in custody. Any doubts about that can be resolved by reviewing Mall Director's thread on the effects of OC. Why should the person continue to suffer once they are complying with your commands/in custody?

    Sometimes, just the sound of the expanding ASP will make them consider the consequences. If it is evident that intense blows are the only way to stop an assailant, then I agree that OC should be the first choice since bones will likely be broken in such a scenario.
    +1...............

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    OC or Baton

    I think it depends on the degree of force one uses with the baton. A whack on the shin or thigh (not a bone-breaking home run swing) might just convince the combative subject that the pain isn't worth the struggle.

    Once the OC is deployed, the pain is going to be intense well after the suspect is in custody. Any doubts about that can be resolved by reviewing Mall Director's thread on the effects of OC. Why should the person continue to suffer once they are complying with your commands/in custody?

    Sometimes, just the sound of the expanding ASP will make them consider the consequences. If it is evident that intense blows are the only way to stop an assailant, then I agree that OC should be the first choice since bones will likely be broken in such a scenario.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Only as a means to block someone's attacks, not as striking blows.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    That Crime Doctor one is facinating... It puts OC above hitting people with a steel rod! I mean baton.

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  • Lawson
    replied
    Here's the one I use:

    http://www.crimedoctor.com/security_guards_2.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • publicsafetyred
    started a topic force continuum for project

    force continuum for project

    Hello Group,

    I need your help again for a school project. Does anyone have a force continuum model that I can use in my school project. It is not going to be published, but I need the source inforamtion so that I can give credit. I am looking for the older "ramp" or "ladder" model, but if you have the newer "ring" model I can use that as well. Please email me at [email protected]

    Thank you again,
    Ryan

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