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Are cameras really a deterent?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    No, my experience is based on 2 side-by-side open unmanned parking lots. One with visable camersa & one with no cameras. The amount of thefts over the same time period were the same.
    There are certain people on which deterrence will not work. They may figure the cameras are fake, or that they are poor quality, or that they are unmonitored. Depending on what model exterior cameras you use, they may not even realize that they are cameras. (We use overhead hanging Sensormatic speed domes for our exterior cameras. I've had people ask if the domes were light posts.)

    The fact is, many criminals aren't the brighest fellows anyways. As I said, I've had people stand directly underneath very visible camera domes and commit theft. Sometimes, you see people look up at the camera and commit the theft anyways. Othertimes, they never even look up once, leading me to believe they just aren't very observant.

    The more cautious criminal may case a location, spot a camera, and decide it's just not worth the risk to commit the crime there. Couple that will other more visible security measures (good exterior lighting, uniformed security patrols, locked doors, etc.) and your deterrence effects will increase.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by LPGuy
      ...Sadly, we'll always continue to have idiots who don't care who is watching and will commit their crimes anyway.
      I wouldn't put it quite that way... those idiots will keep us employed
      The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by LPGuy
        There are certain people on which deterrence will not work. They may figure the cameras are fake, or that they are poor quality, or that they are unmonitored. Depending on what model exterior cameras you use, they may not even realize that they are cameras. (We use overhead hanging Sensormatic speed domes for our exterior cameras. I've had people ask if the domes were light posts.)

        The fact is, many criminals aren't the brighest fellows anyways. As I said, I've had people stand directly underneath very visible camera domes and commit theft. Sometimes, you see people look up at the camera and commit the theft anyways. Othertimes, they never even look up once, leading me to believe they just aren't very observant.

        The more cautious criminal may case a location, spot a camera, and decide it's just not worth the risk to commit the crime there. Couple that will other more visible security measures (good exterior lighting, uniformed security patrols, locked doors, etc.) and your deterrence effects will increase.
        Monitoring the cameras is using them as a tool to catch the people. It is not detering them.
        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
          Monitoring the cameras is using them as a tool to catch the people. It is not detering them.
          I'll probably lose my special rate at your hotel, but here goes:

          If cameras are ONLY for catching people, then all cameras would be hidden in some manner and warning signs would not be necessary.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Mr. Security
            I'll probably lose my special rate at your hotel, but here goes:

            If cameras are ONLY for catching people, then all cameras would be hidden in some manner and warning signs would not be necessary.
            One hotel had visable cameras & big UNDER SURVEILLANCE signs in BOTH Offical languages. The cameras were not monitored & there was no one to respond even if they were. The other hotel had no cameras & no signs. The amount of thefts was the same.(And the special rate is still available!)
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by HotelSecurity
              One hotel had visable cameras & big UNDER SURVEILLANCE signs in BOTH Offical languages. The cameras were not monitored & there was no one to respond even if they were. The other hotel had no cameras & no signs. The amount of thefts was the same.(And the special rate is still available!)
              Thanks on the rate. I'm thinking that that was a fluke. Two hotels aren't enough to base a conclusion on. It would be interesting to compare a number of sites, some with cameras/signs and the others without it. Now, if the incident rate remained the same, then one could make a case for cameras having no deterrent value. I'm betting that the opposite would prove true.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                Thanks on the rate. I'm thinking that that was a fluke. Two hotels aren't enough to base a conclusion on. It would be interesting to compare a number of sites, some with cameras/signs and the others without it. Now, if the incident rate remained the same, then one could make a case for cameras having no deterrent value. I'm betting that the opposite would prove true.
                Don/t bet too much. Do an internet search on the subject! Again I stress - unmonitored cameras with no other response.
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                  Don/t bet too much. Do an internet search on the subject! Again I stress - unmonitored cameras with no other response.
                  I did. The results were mixed with no clear answer. Reminds me of a trial where the state puts their "expert" witnesses on the stand and the defense does likewise. In the end, it all comes down to who the jury feels is more credible. Some juries will even disregard ALL expert witness testimony as biased based on whom they testify for.

                  The same is true with this topic. I believe they are a deterrent because they have stopped criminal mischief where I live. You believe they aren't because of your experience with them. Do you see what I'm getting at?
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mr. Security
                    I did. The results were mixed with no clear answer. Reminds me of a trial where the state puts their "expert" witnesses on the stand and the defense does likewise. In the end, it all comes down to who the jury feels is more credible. Some juries will even disregard ALL expert witness testimony as biased based on whom they testify for.

                    The same is true with this topic. I believe they are a deterrent because they have stopped criminal mischief where I live. You believe they aren't because of your experience with them. Do you see what I'm getting at?
                    Just to be clear. The ones that stopped the mischief where you live are not monitored & no one responded to the mischief?
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      CCTV coverage may not deter as some miscreants do not care if they are seen or not. It does help in solving many crimes. It like many other aids in security and law enforcement is but a tool, another winnowing agent.
                      Enjoy the day,
                      Bill

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                        Just to be clear. The ones that stopped the mischief where you live are not monitored & no one responded to the mischief?
                        That's a "roger." In fact, they are "dummy" cameras.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                          Monitoring the cameras is using them as a tool to catch the people. It is not detering them.
                          Cameras deter criminals whether or not they are monitored. You obviously cannot tell when criminals are deterred because they usually don't report to you and say, "Hey, buddy, I was going to break into that car over there until I saw a security camera outside."

                          Criminals cannot know whether or not cameras are being monitored so the deterrence effect will remain the same. CCTV is an integral part of my everday job. I can tell you that, whether monitored or not, it does in fact deter crime. I could list numerous examples from my job, but for example:

                          My department store is located in a mall. Despite having a public transit stop in our parking lot, we experience very few vehicle prowls/thefts when compared to the rest of the mall. Why? Probably because we are the only store with visible exterior cameras in the parking lot.

                          Again, cameras will not deter everyone. They will not deter people who may believe the cameras are not in a position to catch them. Thus, I arrest people who steal items while in fitting rooms, because they feel that they are not being monitored there. The criminals who are deterred are the silent minority. The deterrence will displace the crime to another location, but you'll never hear about it.

                          Arguing that "cameras are not a deterrent" is a illogical argument that you can't possibly support, because you've not interviewed everyone who has ever come into contact with cameras while contemplating committing a crime. In your experience, cameras alone are not usually a deterrent.

                          One simple security measure generally will not be much of a deterrent. Couple it with other measures, however, and you'll notice changes.

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                          • #58
                            One of the major problems of this business is that clients will choose one method, and only one method. "Cameras are fine, we don't need anything else."

                            That's where the failure to respond comes in. If it deters crime, great. If it does not, then a response must be mounted, or there will be loss of property or life.

                            Cameras deter some of the people some of the time. Its when its not that time does something else need to "pick up the slack" and deal with the issue as it unfolds. This could be an alarm, a human, a machine, or an animal.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                            • #59
                              Wandering a little off topic (like I often do!) I'm not trying to be a smart a** but could someone explain to me how plainclothes LP security deter thefts? Is it the fact that the criminals know there are floor detectives working or is deterence not a factor, only apprehension? It's not hard for me to spot a plan clothed LP guy & I'm not a professional criminal.
                              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I would guess that if the store has an ACTIVE LP Dept. that there is a deterrant value in that... IE... the thiefs know that Sears's folks are going to catch them, so they rip off a smaller store in the mall instead.
                                The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed.

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