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Are cameras really a deterent?

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I'll probably lose my special rate at your hotel, but here goes:

    If cameras are ONLY for catching people, then all cameras would be hidden in some manner and warning signs would not be necessary.
    One hotel had visable cameras & big UNDER SURVEILLANCE signs in BOTH Offical languages. The cameras were not monitored & there was no one to respond even if they were. The other hotel had no cameras & no signs. The amount of thefts was the same.(And the special rate is still available!)

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    Monitoring the cameras is using them as a tool to catch the people. It is not detering them.
    I'll probably lose my special rate at your hotel, but here goes:

    If cameras are ONLY for catching people, then all cameras would be hidden in some manner and warning signs would not be necessary.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by LPGuy
    There are certain people on which deterrence will not work. They may figure the cameras are fake, or that they are poor quality, or that they are unmonitored. Depending on what model exterior cameras you use, they may not even realize that they are cameras. (We use overhead hanging Sensormatic speed domes for our exterior cameras. I've had people ask if the domes were light posts.)

    The fact is, many criminals aren't the brighest fellows anyways. As I said, I've had people stand directly underneath very visible camera domes and commit theft. Sometimes, you see people look up at the camera and commit the theft anyways. Othertimes, they never even look up once, leading me to believe they just aren't very observant.

    The more cautious criminal may case a location, spot a camera, and decide it's just not worth the risk to commit the crime there. Couple that will other more visible security measures (good exterior lighting, uniformed security patrols, locked doors, etc.) and your deterrence effects will increase.
    Monitoring the cameras is using them as a tool to catch the people. It is not detering them.

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  • EMTjon
    replied
    Originally posted by LPGuy
    ...Sadly, we'll always continue to have idiots who don't care who is watching and will commit their crimes anyway.
    I wouldn't put it quite that way... those idiots will keep us employed

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  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    No, my experience is based on 2 side-by-side open unmanned parking lots. One with visable camersa & one with no cameras. The amount of thefts over the same time period were the same.
    There are certain people on which deterrence will not work. They may figure the cameras are fake, or that they are poor quality, or that they are unmonitored. Depending on what model exterior cameras you use, they may not even realize that they are cameras. (We use overhead hanging Sensormatic speed domes for our exterior cameras. I've had people ask if the domes were light posts.)

    The fact is, many criminals aren't the brighest fellows anyways. As I said, I've had people stand directly underneath very visible camera domes and commit theft. Sometimes, you see people look up at the camera and commit the theft anyways. Othertimes, they never even look up once, leading me to believe they just aren't very observant.

    The more cautious criminal may case a location, spot a camera, and decide it's just not worth the risk to commit the crime there. Couple that will other more visible security measures (good exterior lighting, uniformed security patrols, locked doors, etc.) and your deterrence effects will increase.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by LPGuy
    That being said, cameras do deter much crime. It's hard to measure just how much, though, because how can you meausre how much crime did not happen because the potential violater spotted a camera?
    No, my experience is based on 2 side-by-side open unmanned parking lots. One with visable camersa & one with no cameras. The amount of thefts over the same time period were the same.

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  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by hisownhero
    I think it all comes down to the idiot who's doing something they are not suppose to. Where I work, we are wide open to the public, have 30 very visible cameras and warning labels all over the place stating that there is surveillance. Some people that were looking sketchy immediately leave when they see the camera's and others seem to not really care and when we bust them, 9 out of 10 times they said they assumed the cameras were fake or that nobody is ever watching them and that by the time somebody reviews the tapes at night or days later, it'd be too late. They serve their purpose as a deterent and also are very helpful down the road especially in court if something does occur on the grounds. You can argue with an individual over what they saw of you do, but you can't argue with a camera about what your actions were.
    As Mr. Security said, good points. I use CCTV on a daily basis in my retail loss prevention position. Most of the CCTV domes are very visible and there are even small warning stickers on the cosmetics counters. People will still stand right under them and commit theft.

    That being said, cameras do deter much crime. It's hard to measure just how much, though, because how can you meausre how much crime did not happen because the potential violater spotted a camera? (Unless you're using pre-camera install and post-camera install time periods as a reference.)

    I think we'll continue to see deterrence effects increase as far as cameras are concerned, however. Many people look at cameras and instantly think 1980s grainy-quality, small, fuzzy picture, and a monitor with VHS tapes in the back room that isn't being watched.

    As more people are educated about the increases in CCTV technology, they'll slowly start to realize that I use PTZ full color cameras with 20x zoom that are recorded to DVR and not VHS. That means I can instantly pull up the footage on the PC, play back, and even burn to a CD. The majority of the sales associates at my store are surprised when they see our camera system in action. I can read a license plate off of a vehicle parked at the far end of the parking lot or zoom in and see the numbers on a credit card that a customer is paying with. With more and more cameras being used in various places (London, for example, and certain U.S. cities) we'll continue to see the deterrence effect grow.

    Sadly, we'll always continue to have idiots who don't care who is watching and will commit their crimes anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I've discovered 1 place where cameras apparently are a deterent. At the last meeting of the Hotel Secuirty Directors of Montreal the SQ talked about East European gangs & their speciality, cloning credit & debit cards. We were told that frauds with ATM machines happen more at one bank company than anyother. The reason is because this bank is the only one that does not have cameras. Now if all the banks had cameras the deterence might disappear.

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by hisownhero
    I think it all comes down to the idiot who's doing something they are not suppose to. Where I work, we are wide open to the public, have 30 very visible cameras and warning labels all over the place stating that there is surveillance. Some people that were looking sketchy immediately leave when they see the camera's and others seem to not really care and when we bust them, 9 out of 10 times they said they assumed the cameras were fake or that nobody is ever watching them and that by the time somebody reviews the tapes at night or days later, it'd be too late. They serve their purpose as a deterent and also are very helpful down the road especially in court if something does occur on the grounds. You can argue with an individual over what they saw of you do, but you can't argue with a camera about what your actions were.
    That's an interesting and good observation. It gave me some insight into how these individuals reason, flawed though it may be. It helps explain why someone would go ahead and do something stupid right there in front of a camera. Oh well, as someone once told me, people have a right to be stupid.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I agree monitored cameras with a response to what is seen increases the chance of catching the bad guy. However they have not detered the crime.

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  • hisownhero
    replied
    I think it all comes down to the idiot who's doing something they are not suppose to. Where I work, we are wide open to the public, have 30 very visible cameras and warning labels all over the place stating that there is surveillance. Some people that were looking sketchy immediately leave when they see the camera's and others seem to not really care and when we bust them, 9 out of 10 times they said they assumed the cameras were fake or that nobody is ever watching them and that by the time somebody reviews the tapes at night or days later, it'd be too late. They serve their purpose as a deterent and also are very helpful down the road especially in court if something does occur on the grounds. You can argue with an individual over what they saw of you do, but you can't argue with a camera about what your actions were.

    Leave a comment:


  • DizZy SO
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Actually, it works for both at least equally, if not more so toward prevention, IMO. Was the thief that you cited aware that he was on camera? What about the other examples? Maybe awareness is the problem and CCTV signs need to be added.
    I don’t know if the thief knew about the camera, but it is clearly visible. If you see a white and black dome hanging from the side of the building I would think you would know it’s a camera. As for the other examples that happens across from our property at the cemetery and they probably don’t know about the cameras or think we can’t see them. The city is planning on putting cameras around the city and at that cemetery. We have some signs, but maybe not enough. All the crimes that happen don’t happen on our property, but since it is on camera we do report it to the police.

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by DizZy SO
    Are cameras a deterrent? You would think so, but not so in the area I work. Just this week on second shift a guy walking down the sidewalk like nothing walk up to a park car smashed the window and help himself to some things and walk away, while all on camera. A few weeks ago on third shift we help the local PD identify a burglar. We catch people doing stupid things all the time on camera, drug deals, prostitution and peeing in the bushes. Cameras are more in catching people in the act not stopping them from acting.
    Actually, it works for both at least equally, if not more so toward prevention, IMO. Was the thief that you cited aware that he was on camera? What about the other examples? Maybe awareness is the problem and CCTV signs need to be added.

    Leave a comment:


  • DizZy SO
    replied
    Are cameras a deterrent? You would think so, but not so in the area I work. Just this week on second shift a guy walking down the sidewalk like nothing walk up to a park car smashed the window and help himself to some things and walk away, while all on camera. A few weeks ago on third shift we help the local PD identify a burglar. We catch people doing stupid things all the time on camera, drug deals, prostitution and peeing in the bushes. Cameras are more in catching people in the act not stopping them from acting.

    Leave a comment:


  • S/O245
    replied
    I think they are and do help. But they dont stop everything. And besides as far as a cam does is record who killed you. I almost got assigned to a post for the city it was the water plant a "terrorism Target" of course. However the city at the time got in budget problems because the mayor and council made alot of stupid mistakes and what not. So they come up with an idea to save money. We will cut the security contract for the water plant and make our gates me secure and add more cams. However the cam records who killed us not stop them or make an attempt. Lucky us they never pulled the contract. I guess someone talked good sense into the great mayor. I think they are good tool for security and leos. But cams arent the answer again they recorded who hurt or killed you after its been done.

    Have you ever seen where suspects will still come into stores and stab shoot them and look up at the cam. One time a gang member laughed flashed signs and smiled and stuff for the cam after he killed the store clerk.

    Stay Safe Everyone

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