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fairly big outfit hires me, gives me uniform, then 'disappears'.

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  • fairly big outfit hires me, gives me uniform, then 'disappears'.

    Left messages on all their phones, even cruise by their office today and it is all closed, sent email requesting a schedule.

    I hope they don't expect me to make another free trip to return the stuff if I 'get busy' with someone else. All new stuff, too.

    They are supposedly in 3 states and over 1000 employees, I haven't tried their 'emergency phone' yet since I've yet to even get any schedule, but seems odd they have no live person during biz hours.

    Its been 5 days Maybe they were starting new contract and it got stalled and they ain't sure what to tell all us new hires.


    PS-and they drug tested and backgrounded me before "hire" so that can't be it. Maybe they figured out my 'Handle' here on this forum and went "You gotta be kidding! Under no circumstances have any further contact between our firm and this individual".
    Last edited by Squid; 10-03-2013, 05:45 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Squid View Post
    Left messages on all their phones, even cruise by their office today and it is all closed, sent email requesting a schedule.

    I hope they don't expect me to make another free trip to return the stuff if I 'get busy' with someone else. All new stuff, too.

    They are supposedly in 3 states and over 1000 employees, I haven't tried their 'emergency phone' yet since I've yet to even get any schedule, but seems odd they have no live person during biz hours.

    Its been 5 days Maybe they were starting new contract and it got stalled and they ain't sure what to tell all us new hires.


    PS-and they drug tested and backgrounded me before "hire" so that can't be it. Maybe they figured out my 'Handle' here on this forum and went "You gotta be kidding! Under no circumstances have any further contact between our firm and this individual".
    That's exactly what I was thinking before I even read the bottom of this post.
    Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
    Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

    Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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    • #3
      Why would you even mention this forum in applying for a job?
      http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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      • #4
        If it was issued to you, you don't own and it is theft if you don't return it.
        What is the name if this company?

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        • #5
          How exactly would they figure out your handle? Unless you live in LA then I could see how thats possible.
          Sergeant Phil Esterhaus: "Hey, let's be careful out there.."

          THE VIEWS EXPRESSED ON THIS WEBSITE/BLOG ARE MINE ALONE AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER.

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          • #6
            Hold on to the equipment. When they eventually contact you and want you to return their stuff, tell them that you'd like a UPS return label sent to you so that you can box everything up and return it to them, at their expense. If they're that large of a company, they'll likely have a UPS account.
            "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

            "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

            "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

            "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

            http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by zm88 View Post
              How exactly would they figure out your handle? Unless you live in LA then I could see how thats possible.
              Yes I agree. We all have real legitimate names. Why would you plaster on your job application the name Squid?
              And you mentioned the business has 1,000 employees, and in 3 states, and their business/branch office is closed
              during normal business hours? The whole thing sounds screwy to me.

              FYI: I would hold onto the uniforms if they are the real deal. If you have to ship them back via UPS
              Any reason you won't mention who this business is?
              http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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              • #8
                Soper, with the notable exception of rental cars rented from national chains, if you report a 'theft' to the police and you at some point 'gave it to them' they will laugh in your face and say it is a 'civil matter', especially if the item hasn't been illegally pawned, etc and the 'thief' is just 'in possession' and otherwise not breaking any major laws or doing anything TOO criminal.

                Example: Once I dropped off a car at what appeared to be a legit auto repair (they even had logos and claims of "fully licensed and certified{with numbers}", but I later found out they had sort of invented their own "lic and cert" system and if I 'mistook' that to be State of CA that was 'my bad' according to San Jose PD). They tried to double the bill from about $1700 to $3200. Law says if not Bureau of Auto Repair it is illegal for them to charge ANY money, but according to police they could still have an enforceable "mechcanic's lien" and I'd be guilty of theft if I 'just went and got it'.....

                all because "I gave it to them".

                So I had to resort to "other means" and did get the car back and told them to 'send me a bill' which they did until the BAR finally contacted them in 6 weeks after my complaint, etc.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Squid View Post
                  Soper, with the notable exception of rental cars rented from national chains, if you report a 'theft' to the police and you at some point 'gave it to them' they will laugh in your face and say it is a 'civil matter', especially if the item hasn't been illegally pawned, etc and the 'thief' is just 'in possession' and otherwise not breaking any major laws or doing anything TOO criminal.

                  Example: Once I dropped off a car at what appeared to be a legit auto repair (they even had logos and claims of "fully licensed and certified{with numbers}", but I later found out they had sort of invented their own "lic and cert" system and if I 'mistook' that to be State of CA that was 'my bad' according to San Jose PD). They tried to double the bill from about $1700 to $3200. Law says if not Bureau of Auto Repair it is illegal for them to charge ANY money, but according to police they could still have an enforceable "mechcanic's lien" and I'd be guilty of theft if I 'just went and got it'.....

                  all because "I gave it to them".

                  So I had to resort to "other means" and did get the car back and told them to 'send me a bill' which they did until the BAR finally contacted them in 6 weeks after my complaint, etc.
                  What does this have to do with uniforms that you didn't rent that they sent you in expectation of your employment. There is no "contract" here.
                  Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                  Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                  Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                  • #10
                    Squid,

                    Theft. See above.

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                    • #11
                      Assuming you've made a good-faith effort to make contact for assignment and/or returning the uniform, there's absolutely no theft here unless you actually convert the property for your own personal purposes.

                      ("Conversion" is a legal concept, but in this case would mean something like wearing the uniform or parts of it as personal clothing - i.e., at times or in places unrelated to a duty assignment, selling or giving the uniform to someone else, using the shirt as an oil rag, etc.)

                      For the time being, you are not asserting ownership. The uniform was given to you (you did not misappropriate it). This puts you in the position of being the legal "custodian" of the property. "Custodian" implies taking reasonable care of the property, using it only in the manner and for the purposes that it was given to you, and returning it in a similar condition as received when requested to do so by the rightful owner (the company). The civil principles of agency come in, too. A "master" (employer) who allows a "servant" (employee) to use something in the performance of duties for the master cannot turn around and accuse the servant of "theft" - again, unless the servant improperly converts the property for personal gain or purposes.

                      There is no intent on the part of either party for ownership to transfer to the employee, and the employer retains all ownership prerogatives, including requesting the return of the property.

                      At that point, failure to return the property could constitute theft. However, I doubt seriously that most prosecutors would be interested in filing criminal charges in such a situation (difficult to establish the elements of the crime, and the amount of the "theft" too small to tie up resources with it). They would most likely tell the company to sue you for the value of the uniform in a civil court - which would probably be filed in small claims court. No attorneys, no jury, minimal fees, informal rules of evidence, no court reporter, the judge renders an immediate verdict (or apportionment of responsibility) AND the judgment (imposing the remedy on the parties), and no appeal is available by either side - a lot like "Judge Judy".
                      Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-07-2013, 09:49 AM.
                      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                      • #12
                        Of course, with personal clothing you are expected to be ready to wear, and wear well in front of public it is perfectly reasonable to do all sort of 'off duty' wear to 'sort it out'.

                        I always get my pants hemmed extra high and got see how they feel after a few hours, not after 30 seconds. First thing I did was wear their pants at my other gig and when working on my car and for trip to junkyard!

                        However, they did 'resurface' and I'm feeling there was a 'blow out' at their office and now I've been entrusted with sole responsibility(night watchman) of an important project.

                        Various Union(and other) contractors will give out 'uniform' shirts and sometimes want them back. Not sure about non-Union but I've been told they are considered 'consumable' sort of like dust masks, not like power tools, and company has no 'standing' to ask for them back, and it isn't their biz what you did with them(unless maybe you go around falsely representing the company and even then it would be 'up hill').

                        Best thing for any company that has 'strong feelings' would be to make it like 'severance pay' with big cash bonus for return of uniforms.

                        Instead of being on sketchy legal ground 'withholding pay', just tell them "You earn $10/hr for first 100 hrs, then $15/hr, and when you leave our company if you return the uniform we pay you $500 bonus".
                        Last edited by Squid; 10-07-2013, 07:47 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Nice try. The uniforms are the property of the company and are not disposable... Why do you spend so much time trying to justify your behavior?

                          Talk about a high risk employee...

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                          • #14
                            To put it simply: if you did not buy it, it is not yours and the company owns it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Squid View Post
                              Of course, with personal clothing you are expected to be ready to wear, and wear well in front of public it is perfectly reasonable to do all sort of 'off duty' wear to 'sort it out'.

                              I always get my pants hemmed extra high and got see how they feel after a few hours, not after 30 seconds. First thing I did was wear their pants at my other gig and when working on my car and for trip to junkyard!

                              However, they did 'resurface' and I'm feeling there was a 'blow out' at their office and now I've been entrusted with sole responsibility(night watchman) of an important project.

                              Various Union(and other) contractors will give out 'uniform' shirts and sometimes want them back. Not sure about non-Union but I've been told they are considered 'consumable' sort of like dust masks, not like power tools, and company has no 'standing' to ask for them back, and it isn't their biz what you did with them(unless maybe you go around falsely representing the company and even then it would be 'up hill').

                              Best thing for any company that has 'strong feelings' would be to make it like 'severance pay' with big cash bonus for return of uniforms.

                              Instead of being on sketchy legal ground 'withholding pay', just tell them "You earn $10/hr for first 100 hrs, then $15/hr, and when you leave our company if you return the uniform we pay you $500 bonus".
                              Squid, I read your posts and I get this overwhelming urge to dial up the local looney bin and suggest that they might want to do a head count.

                              Just sayin' - your combo plate is short a couple of tacos, bro'.
                              Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-09-2013, 07:28 AM.
                              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                              Comment

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