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Girl Knows Her Rights with Cops Tells Off Border Patrol

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  • Girl Knows Her Rights with Cops Tells Off Border Patrol

    I posted this in my other group devoted to Florida security officers that is listed in my signature line. I wasn't sure if I should post it in the "off-topic" section or here. What do you think? That isn't the title I would have chosen for this video. It would have been more like "smug girl baffles Border Patrol agent that doesn't understand his job". I've run into this smug attitude as a security officer before. The "I know my rights better than you know your job" attitude doesn't carry much water for me. How would you handle this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSfo...reply_received
    Last edited by tacticalguy; 09-23-2013, 07:09 PM. Reason: Spelling
    "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

    "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

    "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

    "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

    http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

  • #2
    Girl pushes her luck

    That Border Patrol Officer has the patience of a Saint. Seems to me she is disobeying a lawful order as well as traffic offenses for improper parking on a roadway and blocking traffic and should have been charged. After watching maybe hundreds of vehicles pass by, this was probably some welcomed entertainment. I know after walking in circles for a few hours a car alarm going off anywhere gets me excited ...lol

    Comment


    • #3
      More like girl walks on thin ice I dont understand why everyone flames comments on how the cops were violating the guys rights when he is being a general nuisance to everyone. If someone acted like that where I work, i would definitely put the cuffs on too.

      Comment


      • #4
        He'd needs to assert his authority more, if you disobey a lawful order
        from a peace officer you'd get arrested. Plain and simple. That Border Patrol Officer
        is too nice most cops I know would've handcuffed her for disobeying a lawful order.
        They wouldn't put up with this much crap from her.

        Comment


        • #5
          The problem is more with USBP than the agent. They put these young agents on checkpoints 100 miles from any international border and then don't do a good job of explaining their statutory authority to stop people within the limits of the border. He should be able to cite the specific law and text and even keep a copy of it in his pockets. Even the supervisor simply lets her go when she protests to him. If the USBP wants to do these inland checkpoints they need to empower their agents by giving them better training and direction.
          "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
          "The Curve" 1998

          Comment


          • #6
            I see hesitation where I should see calm assurance. I see a failure on his team because another team member should have stepped up when he failed to assert himself, properly. She was wrong. He just didn't understand his job or the statutes that he was stopping her for well enough to clearly state them. As Lawson stated, better training and better direction are needed.
            "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

            "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

            "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

            "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

            http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is why attorneys shouldn't breed

              Well, she was obviously some spoiled daddy's girl and maybe he didn't want the headache of responding to the complaint.

              I had an attorney run a stop sign in front of a guard, a maintenance worker and a vendor. We issued him a courtesy ticket. The two page letter (single spaced) with photos and diagram calling the guard a liar and insisting on termination was unreal.

              That having been said, she's lucky. As mentioned, obstructing the lawful business of a peace officer and holding up traffic because you are an "attention horse" (the polite term) would get you "cuffed and stuffed" in a lot of jurisdictions.

              Comment


              • #8
                How should you "handle it"? Move to Cuba where the Government does a better job of handling these problems that upset you.

                That being said, the entire "border situation" is FUBAR and the only way to improve it would start with firing any and all current employees who have anything to do with it, starting with our POTUS and DHS Sec all the way down to the janitor at some Border Patrol office, and starting afresh, with a DMZ staffed by US Army combat troops with live rounds, just like nearly every nation with any border with any other nation. I haven't done much traveling but I hear almost all OTHER countries station most of their army near or at the border even if totally friendly, just to deter fleeing criminals, smugglers etc and "where else would they be?"

                This whole program of messing with American citizens AFTER they have crossed the border is designed not to work and to violate citizens rights. There is "The Border" where the Govt has rights to search and refuse entry till they verify stuff, then there is one inch inside the border where all rights apply. What we are seeing is the result of evil and treason in the highest echelons of govt.

                There does exist a large and scary group of "police powers" outside all the legal rights you have when CHARGED, which can be abused. Things like road closures etc, all done 'for public safety'.

                IIRC, if he had ordered her to move her car and park it somewhere because they were doing roadwork or something it would be a "lawful order" but as he was "detaining" HER for reasons only involving HER and/or HER car he was being "unlawful" without probable cause, and she was correct. The chances of her not being an American citizen(or legal resident) given her all American valley girl accent are like 1/1000. If the Border Patrol or DHS can stop cars to "verify citizenship" they need to do it in East LA and focus on people who don't speak perfect American-English.



                "The driver was obviously correct. The dog picked up no scent of drugs, but most importantly, the simple fact that the Border Patrol agents´╗┐ eventually let her go only shows that even they knew they were on slippery ground in detaining her. " Correct!

                Cop "You are holding up traffic", SuperGirl "No, YOU are holding up traffic by detaining me". Perfect and 110% correct.



                This girl should be awarded The Medal of Freedom, just for taking time out of her obviously busy schedule heading to Vail to one of her family's many homes to educate these civil service superstars on basic American law (not to mention not asking lots of questions again and again after she explained very correctly that it was 'none of their business').

                This whole episode shows why we need to scrap the entire Civil Service and give full power to hire and FIRE government workers back to voters and elected officials. Entrenched public school and college professors call it the "Spoils System" because (gasp!) those ELECTED by voters got the "spoils" in that they could fire current employees and replace them like any business manager in private industry. The use of "spoil" is supposed to make us think of 'rotten'. Control the debate by controlling the language. In this context, the bringing in of new employees chosen by the voter's new representative would be more accurately called "freshened" not "spoiled".


                Part of the root problem is the govt gets to violate your rights without any penalty on their part unless you spend over $100,000 on legal fees to sue them. What should happen in cases like this is after the 2nd time she made it clear she wished to leave and they had no legal grounds to detain her an automatic $100/minute Ghetto Lottery Award should have kicked in (to be taken out of salaries of the officer and his supervisors), and the officer doing the unlawful detaining should have gotten one of a max of "three strikes" towards a lifetime ban on any public sector employment.

                "..... some spoiled daddy's girl....." The term you want is "Noblesse oblige". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige Well, we don't got "nobles" here is the USA, but there is nothing more American than someone using their own more than adequate resources to "keep the system in check" so it can't beat up on weaker folks when it would have been easier for them to not do so, knowing "the system" would give them a 'pass' due to their position. We all know that the cop would have bent over backwards to give this rich girl a 'pass' if she was doing anything wrong. You or I would be thinking "these pigs just might arrest me and have my car towed by their Boss Hogg buddy and I'm be stuck with a $500 tow and release just for getting the car back, at a minimum, and two day delay and I really can't risk that today". She was using her privileged position to keep America free, and going out of her way to do so. Sort of like when the US Navy does "Freedom of the Seas" exercise, but doing it here at home and not trying to 'start something' with foreigners thousands of miles from the USA.


                Lets remember that the whole "probable cause" thing isn't just about protecting individual's from the Govt, but just as much just trying to keep the Govt from wandering off and not doing their jobs due to lack of any 'adult supervision'.



                PS-if our Border Patrol was in any way "doing their job effectively" I'd be willing to consider making such border related stops inside the USA some sort of 'special case', but the fact is all the Border Patrol and entire DHS do is displace and even outlaw any legit border control or enforcement. Our border with Mexico is only 1600 miles long, which means less than 2000 Boy Scouts with radios and 1903 Springfields could easily 99.999% totally seal it, if it wasn't for threat of arrest by AMERICAN govt agents. It isn't a question of whether they had legal authority to detain her, it is a question of the entire Border Patrol and DHS even vaguely performing any legit "border control" during their entire careers. I've noticed that intentionally chronically failing govt luvs a "new program", which we've been hearing about for decades from mostly the same people about a wide range of issues, from "the border" to public schools to crime. A perfect example, another million dollars to the same people doing the same things that ruined so much of USA, but they are all pretending it is some 'new approach'....this time, again.... http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...sco&id=9259095
                Last edited by Squid; 09-24-2013, 04:31 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Squid View Post
                  How should you "handle it"? Move to Cuba where the Government does a better job of handling these problems that upset you.

                  That being said, the entire "border situation" is FUBAR and the only way to improve it would start with firing any and all current employees who have anything to do with it, starting with our POTUS and DHS Sec all the way down to the janitor at some Border Patrol office, and starting afresh, with a DMZ staffed by US Army combat troops with live rounds, just like nearly every nation with any border with any other nation. I haven't done much traveling but I hear almost all OTHER countries station most of their army near or at the border even if totally friendly, just to deter fleeing criminals, smugglers etc and "where else would they be?"

                  This whole program of messing with American citizens AFTER they have crossed the border is designed not to work and to violate citizens rights. There is "The Border" where the Govt has rights to search and refuse entry till they verify stuff, then there is one inch inside the border where all rights apply. What we are seeing is the result of evil and treason in the highest echelons of govt.

                  There does exist a large and scary group of "police powers" outside all the legal rights you have when CHARGED, which can be abused. Things like road closures etc, all done 'for public safety'.

                  IIRC, if he had ordered her to move her car and park it somewhere because they were doing roadwork or something it would be a "lawful order" but as he was "detaining" HER for reasons only involving HER and/or HER car he was being "unlawful" without probable cause, and she was correct. The chances of her not being an American citizen(or legal resident) given her all American valley girl accent are like 1/1000. If the Border Patrol or DHS can stop cars to "verify citizenship" they need to do it in East LA and focus on people who don't speak perfect American-English.



                  "The driver was obviously correct. The dog picked up no scent of drugs, but most importantly, the simple fact that the Border Patrol agents´╗┐ eventually let her go only shows that even they knew they were on slippery ground in detaining her. " Correct!

                  Cop "You are holding up traffic", SuperGirl "No, YOU are holding up traffic by detaining me". Perfect and 110% correct.



                  This girl should be awarded The Medal of Freedom, just for taking time out of her obviously busy schedule heading to Vail to one of her family's many homes to educate these civil service superstars on basic American law (not to mention not asking lots of questions again and again after she explained very correctly that it was 'none of their business').

                  This whole episode shows why we need to scrap the entire Civil Service and give full power to hire and FIRE government workers back to voters and elected officials. Entrenched public school and college professors call it the "Spoils System" because (gasp!) those ELECTED by voters got the "spoils" in that they could fire current employees and replace them like any business manager in private industry. The use of "spoil" is supposed to make us think of 'rotten'. Control the debate by controlling the language. In this context, the bringing in of new employees chosen by the voter's new representative would be more accurately called "freshened" not "spoiled".
                  LMAMFAO!!!! *wipes tears of laughter from his eyes* Thanks so much for that. I needed a good laugh this morning.
                  "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                  "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                  "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                  "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                  http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    @ Squid - I agree and disagree. Yes, border patrol operating inside the country is troublesome (they do this in WA state, on the excuse that its how they catch terrorists). Because of our laws militarizing the border is a no go - but National Guard is OK, and they do use them in a limited capacity. (Plus, army on the Canadian border might be a bit much.)

                    My problem with this young lady is her holding up traffic in order to grandstand. Look, you can stand around and protest at the Federal building all you want - I support you. But the minute you block the door or my car when I'm there on legitimate business as a citizen, you've crossed a line. She could write a letter to the station chief. She could contact her local media. If she was really gutsy, she would have driven off and faced the consequences. Instead, we get a whiny video on Youtube and a bunch of other citizens made late. Could BP have handled it better? You betcha - they started it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      " Because of our laws militarizing the border is a no go" ???? So if the Soviets had landed just over the border in TJ during the Cold War we would have been restricted to sending Border Patrol and local police against their tank column?

                      What laws are those? Actually, given the various vague 'non aggression' type treaties and agreements we've signed at UN etc I think our border is the only place we can legally 'militarize'. Maybe we can't legally have US Army writing speeding tickets to non-citizens due to posse comatose but I don't see any problem with using US Army against ILLEGAL foreigners, and certainly not against Mexicans who seem very undecided as to whether our last peace treaty still holds. Throwing foreigners out of USA territory could be called "defending the USA" instead of "law enforcement".

                      Remember when Ike 'Federalized' the State NG at Little Rock, making them US Army troops, to enforce court orders?

                      Remember when Ike did Operation Wetback, which included all sorts of State NG, state and local police to enforce Fed immigration laws? Still perfectly legal, mostly because the subjects weren't be charged with crimes. Legally, we were just helping some little lost lambs return to their correct nation, sort of like how the police can order you to take a detour. Oh, yeah, and any "mistakes" during Operation Wetback where people who were technically US citizens and deported is A-OK because the intent of US govt was to do the right thing and return them to what seemed to be the correct country. Like if that detour the cops send you on turns out to be a dead end or a swamp they don't even need to say 'sorry', and they don't.

                      Returning someone to their correct nation isn't a legal punishment with related legal protections like "right to a lawyer" or appeals. It is more like the USCG hauling victims out of the sea and to some base. If anyone thinks being dumped back in Mexico is a 'raw deal' that is just their opinion, which they are entitled to....but Senator Feinstein says they are "good, warm hearted people" so I don't see a problem.


                      And of course we should militarize the Canadian border, even though they may be nice people on average than Americans, just because that is only 'on average', and we got a big army with nothing else to do, and securing a border doesn't take much manpower, and last but not least it would provide a good example to the Mexicans because securing the US/Canada border would prevent OUR scumbags from bothering those nice Canadians. There is allowing your citizens to leave the country as a non-Communist human rights policy, then there knowingly allowing them to cause problems with your neighbor(or even overseas other nations) with their illegal entries.
                      Last edited by Squid; 09-25-2013, 12:19 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Squid View Post
                        " Because of our laws militarizing the border is a no go" ???? So if the Soviets had landed just over the border in TJ during the Cold War we would have been restricted to sending Border Patrol and local police against their tank column?

                        What laws are those? Actually, given the various vague 'non aggression' type treaties and agreements we've signed at UN etc I think our border is the only place we can legally 'militarize'. Maybe we can't legally have US Army writing speeding tickets to non-citizens due to posse comatose but I don't see any problem with using US Army against ILLEGAL foreigners, and certainly not against Mexicans who seem very undecided as to whether our last peace treaty still holds. Throwing foreigners out of USA territory could be called "defending the USA" instead of "law enforcement".

                        Remember when Ike 'Federalized' the State NG at Little Rock, making them US Army troops, to enforce court orders?

                        Remember when Ike did Operation Wetback, which included all sorts of State NG, state and local police to enforce Fed immigration laws? Still perfectly legal, mostly because the subjects weren't be charged with crimes. Legally, we were just helping some little lost lambs return to their correct nation, sort of like how the police can order you to take a detour.

                        Returning someone to their correct nation isn't a legal punishment with related legal protections like "right to a lawyer" or appeals. It is more like the USCG hauling victims out of the sea and to some base. If anyone thinks being dumped back in Mexico is a 'raw deal' that is just their opinion, which they are entitled to....but Senator Feinstein says they are "good, warm hearted people" so I don't see a problem.


                        And of course we should militarize the Canadian border, even though they may be nice people on average than Americans, just because that is only 'on average', and we got a big army with nothing else to do, and securing a border doesn't take much manpower, and last but not least it would provide a good example to the Mexicans because securing the US/Canada border would prevent OUR scumbags from bothering those nice Canadians. There is allowing your citizens to leave the country as a non-Communist human rights policy, then there knowingly allowing them to cause problems with your neighbor(or even overseas other nations) with their illegal entries.
                        Posse Comitatus.
                        "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                        "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                        "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                        "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                        http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          32 seconds into the video when the guard says "You are being detained" the girl needs to ask for a lawyer and shut up. There is no point in arguing whether or not they have the authority to detain you. If you REALLY don't think they have the authority drive away and see what happens

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
                            32 seconds into the video when the guard says "You are being detained" the girl needs to ask for a lawyer and shut up. There is no point in arguing whether or not they have the authority to detain you. If you REALLY don't think they have the authority drive away and see what happens
                            Excellent point, sir! The fact was that the guy who was using her as a puppet knew within seconds that she could just sit there and BS that agent. He probably also knew that driving away would have precipitated further action.
                            "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                            "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                            "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                            "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                            http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Trunk Monkey, no, she played it just right because IIRC, they do have authority chase if you 'run' and IIRC that is an exception to 'poison fruit' doctrine, so you can get real "evading arrest" charges that stick even if reason for their 'interest' was invalid to begin with.

                              Example: Cop sees you wearing 49ers jersey and wants to talk sports and you break and run. When he catches you he can charge you with "evading".




                              "Posse Comitatus" really doesn't have any 'teeth'. The big 'exception' seems to rely on the POTUS admin's personal point of view as to whether the states are responding well enough to some vague 'constitutional rights of the people' as the current admin cares to interpret those rights in a particular situation.


                              Did I mention the POTUS can order as many guys from Army and/or Marines into the 'Coast Guard' as he feels like at anytime, thus exempting them from PC.....and the USCG seems to have found reasons for pretty broad jurisdiction, like pretty much anything that is imported until "the consumer buys it" under certain circumstances, like if there is some reason to believe a breach of customs took place.



                              From Wiki.........

                              An exception to Posse Comitatus Act, derived from the Enforcement Acts, allowed President Eisenhower to send federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas, during the 1958 school desegregation crisis. The Enforcement Acts, among other powers, allow the President to call up military forces when state authorities are either unable or unwilling to suppress violence that is in opposition to the constitutional rights of the people.[2]

                              The original Posse Comitatus Act referred essentially to the United States Army. The Air Force was added in 1956 and the Navy and the Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. The United States Coast Guard is not included in the Act. (The U.S. Coast Guard was originally part of the Treasury Department, was later part of the Department of Transportation, and is now within the Department of Homeland Security.) This law is often relied upon to prevent the Department of Defense from interfering in domestic law enforcement.[3]
                              Last edited by Squid; 09-25-2013, 07:15 PM.

                              Comment

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