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  • Is Quantity or Quality more important?

    What do you think is more important? Quantity (how many security guards you can put on a site) or quality (how well trained they are?)
    Last edited by vfc859; 08-02-2013, 11:38 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by vfc859 View Post
    What do you think is more important? Quantity (how many security guards you can put on a site) or quality (how well trained they are?)
    What do you believe? Six bad Guards, or three quality Guards! I'd prefer Quality vs. Quanity
    http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm in agreement with Cope. You can "flood" a site. If it's a replay of a Keystone Kops episode, what do you have? I'd rather see a small team of competent, experienced officers, personally. Less liability and fewer issues in the long run, guaranteed. The old formula, two mediocre officers at $9.50/$10 an hour or one professional at $15-$16 an hour. Which one is less overhead for the agency?
      Last edited by tacticalguy; 08-02-2013, 01:32 PM.
      "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

      "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

      "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

      "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

      http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tacticalguy View Post
        I'm in agreement with Cope. You can "flood" a site. If it's a replay of a Keystone Kops episode, what do you have? I'd rather see a small team of competent, experienced officers, personally. Less liability and fewer issues in the long run, guaranteed. The old formula, two mediocre officers at $9.50/$10 an hour or one professional at $15-$16 an hour. Which one is less overhead for the agency?
        Amen! Excellent. Why even ask a question like this?
        http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

        Comment


        • #5
          The reason why I was asking was that I have heard several opinions from people who have wanted cities to not hire as many police officers and instead hire more security guards.

          For example, rather than having 10 police officers on patrol, have 75 security guards on fixed posts and 3 police officers roaming

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vfc859 View Post
            The reason why I was asking was that I have heard several opinions from people who have wanted cities to not hire as many police officers and instead hire more security guards.

            For example, rather than having 10 police officers on patrol, have 75 security guards on fixed posts and 3 police officers roaming
            I'd prefer the 13 total Police Officers, former Good Cops like Curtis, than 75 Security officers
            http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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            • #7
              I think its a formula - what you need and what skill level is required. While quality is more efficient, even the best S/O or LEO has limitations, which means you may need more eyes / bodies.

              The college I worked at had a great arrangement, a formula that cities should consider - they had a mix of work-study students that worked as P/T security guards, F/T university employees on parking enforcement and a small staff of fully commissioned police officers who handled the serious stuff. The LEOs treated us all as team members, and in exchange we tried to take care of as much of the small and medium level matters so they could focus on their work.

              The mistake cities are making is thinking that "any uniform" will accomplish the same task as an LEO. Criminals know the laws regarding arrest powers and they know how to read a situation - they not only can spot the difference between a police officer and a security officer, but they'll figure out pretty quick how good the S/Os are or aren't.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                . Criminals know the laws regarding arrest powers and they know how to read a situation - they not only can spot the difference between a police officer and a security officer, but they'll figure out pretty quick how good the S/Os are or aren't.

                When we first took over Security at the closed down Industrial Site, our first rule of order
                NO FORMER, RETIRED, LAID OFF EMPLOYEES OF PLANT ALLOWED ON SITE

                Soon word got back we meant business, YOU AIN'T ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY

                I have kept in close contact with one retired employee, He did a lot for us before the final
                closing. He agrees with us, and NO ONE PERMITTED ON PROPERTY

                Person whom I speak with does tells me we/the Security Guards are not well liked by former employees
                We have been called every vile name in the book. Explicit adjectives of what former employees think of us
                and what we can do with ourselves

                I was pleased to hear this. It mean we are doing our job and following the bylaws and rules set forth
                by the client and our contract security.
                http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is Quantity Or Quality More Important?

                  The suburban police department that I worked at for a bit over 10 years essentially did that with sworn officers vs. non-sworn community service officers/police reserves.police explorers. If you get a knock down, drag out domestic, the sworn officers are responding. If you find a bicycle or lost dog, then a community service officer is handling it. If you have a city celebration where numbers are important and traffic control is needed, then you get police reserves. They might even be supplemented with police explorers.

                  The sheriff's office that I retired from did something similar. If you are kicking someone out of a house on an eviction, arresting a fugitive or a warrant, or are conducting a criminal investigation, you get a sworn, licensed, armed deputy sheriff. If you need to staff the housing units at the pre-trial jail, it is unlicensed, non-sworn correctional deputies. The county fair had a mix, but the tasks they were allowed to perform depended on their status. If a "carnie" is getting arrested, again a sworn deputy. The ones directing traffic are often explorers, part time deputies, etc.

                  The State Patrol here is similar. The troopers stops cars, write citations, and go to traffic accidents. The commercial vehicle enforcement is done mainly by unlicensed, non-sworn commercial vehicle inspectors. They are supplemented by some sworn troopers and supervised at a certain level by sworn troopers. The non-sworn "highway helpers" take care of the metro freeway stalled cars and motorist assists.

                  Similarly, the DOC staffs prisons with correctional officers who are non-sworn and unlicensed. However, they do have a fugitive unit (OSI/SIU) that has investigators that are licensed, sworn offers. They arrest the inmates that mess up on supervise release. (We don't have probation here, per se', but just think of supervised release as probation.)

                  As far as private security vs. government employees, we have that in my area, too. A couple of the county courthouses near me have deputy sheriffs providing actual court security. The armed security officers are also there, but performing tasks that don't require a deputy sheriff.

                  The federal government does that, too. If you go to the federal building near me, there will be Deco Security at the door. If they have an issue that they can't deal with, then they contact the Federal Protective Service, which is who contracts them.

                  Other industries do similar things. When I was much younger, you went to the pharmacy and pharmacist filled the prescriptions. Now, in many pharmacies, pharmacy technicians perform many tasks. In other medical fields it is similar. You might see a doctor pr a physicians assistant. Someone in scrubs at the hospital could be an RN, LPN, MD, NP or someone with a completely diofferent set of initials on their name tag!
                  Last edited by Jim1348; 08-02-2013, 04:39 PM. Reason: Details

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll wade in on the opposite side as usual.

                    On New Years Eve my downtown hotel is filled with rowdy young people with a few families & "regular" guests unfortunately mixed in.

                    It costs the hotel $80/hour for an off duty police officer.

                    For $80 we can hire 3 security officers.

                    In responding to active incidents both have the same powers. (The difference is a police officer can arrest if he believes you might have committed a crime).

                    In this case having 6 people to patrol a 25 story packed hotel is better than just 2.
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Condo Guard View Post
                      I think its a formula - what you need and what skill level is required. While quality is more efficient, even the best S/O or LEO has limitations, which means you may need more eyes / bodies.
                      Good points, too.
                      "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

                      "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

                      "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

                      "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

                      http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sales, Warranty and Service..

                        First off, it requires a full disclosure of the gig/job, Agent in Charge. I won't take on any squarrely gig without my team, proven men in the field, Sport Jackets, Navy blue polo's or BDU's. It is what it is. It depends on the Agent and company....

                        That we both have worked with each other before..



                        Pop pop
                        Pop Pop - It reminds me of an old statement by my Master Sergeant. "A Good Run is better then a Bad Stand".

                        Sec Trainer- Pop Pop: Hope you don't mind if I quote your Master Sergeant. He was a very smart man.

                        Pop Pop- Yes Sir, Thank you Senior Instructor Sec Trainer, hope you don't mind if I place your quote into my Signature?

                        Sec Trainer- Permission granted, recruit. Now, police the company area!


                        flat out cool..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And then, we will take a second look see at the job, I've been a supervisior at bag check , bag search during a " Run For Your Lives Zombie Run" (25k) or Executive Protection in the same circles like McCarter Theatre the venue. entertainers

                          and principals. It's about, begins and and starts with the job, And we're not even talking transport.
                          Pop Pop - It reminds me of an old statement by my Master Sergeant. "A Good Run is better then a Bad Stand".

                          Sec Trainer- Pop Pop: Hope you don't mind if I quote your Master Sergeant. He was a very smart man.

                          Pop Pop- Yes Sir, Thank you Senior Instructor Sec Trainer, hope you don't mind if I place your quote into my Signature?

                          Sec Trainer- Permission granted, recruit. Now, police the company area!


                          flat out cool..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is Quantity Or Quality More Important?

                            This sort of sounds like deployment of Army soldiers. If you want a LOT of bodies, sent the Infantry. If you need the precision of a special unit, send in the Rangers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jim1348 View Post
                              This sort of sounds like deployment of Army soldiers. If you want a LOT of bodies, sent the Infantry. If you need the precision of a special unit, send in the Rangers.
                              What about us guys who were in the United States Navy? Don't we count for anything?
                              http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

                              Comment

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