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  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Thanks, N.A.

    Eric, I agree with all the ideas you put forth. I realy do like your slogan. It summarizes the value of a well run, local/regional company versus a beomoth where the average life span of a district manager is about six months For a contractor, adding value differs greatly by your markets, at least here in the U.S. In Mississippi for example, an unregulated state, adding value may be providing any training AT ALL! In Texas, it may be providing Workers Comp Insurance (Texas is the only state that I know of that doesn't require it!). But at the end of the day, it is professionalism. If you provide an above average level of quality service, and create an environment in which the front line officers feel they are making a difference to the client and helping their company at the same time, then the rest is marketing, i.e. getting the word out to the market.

    I'm just a consultant and although I know the industry from a management point of view, I've never stood a post like most of the guys in this forum. Keep up the good work and continue the campaign. Slowly but surely, the industry awareness is spreading and will reverse 30 years of "low bid equals success". (I just figured out how to use these emoticons)

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric
    replied
    At least by not offering as much information originally, you started us talking.

    With this new information then, talk about and really show the professionalism of each staff member. Consider them taking the CPO (IFPO) program. Take the CPP (ASIS) your self or hire one. This commitment could be the difference.
    Find out what you can about each client (web pages, employees) and tailor your plan around that. "Personal service, small enough to know you, large enough to exceed expectations" ( I will accept donations for use of that.

    But what does make YOU different from the competion???

    Originally posted by hrdickinson
    Let me clarify my point! I was speaking of "adding value" from the viewpoint of a security contractor. In those terms, a value added service or program is anything that you can offer to differentiate your company from the competition.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by hrdickinson
    Nathan,

    With all do respect, and I mean that sincerely, I will stand by my statements. There are over 10,000 security companies in the U.S. alone and with a population of that number of owners/branch managers/supervisors, etc., there are unfortunately, a great number of sleazeballs out there. I deal with small companies on a daily basis and give seminars around the country that owners attend because they are trying to do the right thing. You know how fiercely competitive the industry is and they all are trying to get an edge on the other guy. As you said, concierge, EMT, scale operators is fairly common, but they all have the common thread that the person is the "gatekeeper", so to speak. Any company that I know that also provides janitorial services, compartmentalizes it into a separate division. The labor pool is different, the pricing is different and certainly the mission is different.

    Any company that would have their officers mopping floors at the workers comp rate of a security officer, is stupid. Any company that had their officers doing anything that would detract from their primary function is stupid from a liability standpoint, post orders or not.

    If they have to do that to keep the contract... and they comply, they are in the wrong industry. They should be standing on the corner near the Lincoln Tunnel.
    Ok, there's a misunderstanding here. I'm standing by your statements, too. I want those idiots out of business. And I want their clients to pay for janitors.

    Leave a comment:


  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Adding Value

    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    These are the things that security companies are calling "value-added services" now days. It is common for a contract security guard to have such value added services as: Weigh Scale Operator, Janitoral Engineer, Concierge, First Aid Squad Member, etc.

    Some of these are not bad. The issue, of course, is that many supervisory personnel and many companies are putting these into the post orders. A common example was that a security guard was ordered to turn his "security guard" badge over to the supervisor as he showed up for work. He did so. The new one said "Securex Services," a now-bought out Tampa company, and he was told that his duties were expanded to include mopping floors. He refused, as he was not informed of this and was an armed officer. He was terminated on the spot for failing to obey his post orders.

    Value Added Services has become another term that the security companies are using to ensure that they can "prove a negative" not by articulating the security services they provide, but by adding non-security functions to the job.

    Many guards double as valets, for example. Who's watching the property while your parking cars? Nobody.

    This is why the term "Value Added Services" has been corrupted.
    Nathan,

    With all do respect, and I mean that sincerely, I will stand by my statements. There are over 10,000 security companies in the U.S. alone and with a population of that number of owners/branch managers/supervisors, etc., there are unfortunately, a great number of sleazeballs out there. I deal with small companies on a daily basis and give seminars around the country that owners attend because they are trying to do the right thing. You know how fiercely competitive the industry is and they all are trying to get an edge on the other guy. As you said, concierge, EMT, scale operators is fairly common, but they all have the common thread that the person is the "gatekeeper", so to speak. Any company that I know that also provides janitorial services, compartmentalizes it into a separate division. The labor pool is different, the pricing is different and certainly the mission is different.

    Any company that would have their officers mopping floors at the workers comp rate of a security officer, is stupid. Any company that had their officers doing anything that would detract from their primary function is stupid from a liability standpoint, post orders or not.

    If they have to do that to keep the contract... and they comply, they are in the wrong industry. They should be standing on the corner near the Lincoln Tunnel.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by hrdickinson
    Let me clarify my point! ... I don't know about the world of inhouse security but sweeping floors and similar chores is lunacy! Unless it's in the post orders, you don't do it. I would tell my people that when requested by a client to perform an unauthorized task, to be polite and call their supervisor immediately. You are there to protect the client's property and employees, not ingratiate yourself with the client contact or other employees.

    (Oh boy, I can't wait to see the heat I have to take on this one)
    I forgot to address this one specifically. This is what you are supposed to do, but most contract security guards know that they'll be out on their ass if they dare speak up to the client.

    I refused to mop floors and play repairman. Armed condo contract. I was ordered to leave my property by the president of the condo association. I refused to leave, (Dereliction of duty if I leave without being properly relieved, no manager can override my duty to the State of Florida as outlined under contract to man my post) and he summoned a police officer who understood why I couldn't leave and then releived me of my lawful duties under 493.

    The contract was terminated by the client, but we won in court. If I had worked for a less "progressive" contract company, I would of been fired and had "failed to perform expected duties" forwarded to the state unemployment commission as why I was fired.

    You do what the client says. Rule #1 in warm body contract security. If the client says mop floors, your supervisor will most likely tell you, "DO YOU WANT TO LOSE YOUR JOB CAUSE IF WE LOSE THIS CONTRACT YOU WILL. YOU BETTER MOP THAT FLOOR."

    After all, the guard works for near minimum wage. If he won't do it, someone else will.
    Last edited by N. A. Corbier; 09-06-2006, 10:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    Tomorrow night the emergency power circuit for my 25 floor hotel will be shut off so that the newly renovated elevators can be connected to it. We will have no water, stairway lights or elevators. (It is something that has to be done there is never a good time to do it). As a result I will double my in-house staff from 1 to 2. I will also be hiring 2 agents from a contract company. 3 Managers will be there as well as a Bellboy & Houseman. There are very few check ins after 23h00. However if someone does arrive with baggage we ALL are expected to help them get to their room. Do you think the contract people are going to refuse?
    Not if they value their jobs. That's not a security related function, but they know if they refuse they endanger the client contract and they'll be out on their ass by end of shift.

    Client: "Your guard is refusing to take luggage."
    Supervisor: "I'm really sorry about this, we'll have someone there who'll work with you as soon as possible. Tell the guard they're relieved, and I'll be by in a few minutes to collect their badge and ID. He'll be fired the next morning. Again, I'm really sorry."
    Client: "Your boss says you're fired."

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric
    I may not be understanding the term extremely industrial correctly. Construction, office, hospital, casino sites virtually anywhere could possibly use those ideas.
    I would imagine each state, and up here, province have different guidelines. In Ontario, we are legislated to have a H&S group depending on employee numbers. I value add as a member of it.
    Like wise with first aid kits and extinguishers. Our Department took this on to value add.

    Yes it is a good idea to inspect extinguishers (and know where they all are) while on rounds, a log though with serial numbers/date inspected/by and a tag on each unit signed monthly, would be better.

    If management are saying stop making work for us, that may be sign to move on or except the observe/report/wave free position.
    H&S Groups are not required in the United States. Basically, a contractor who sells that equipment must inspect it semi-annually as part of the contract.

    I don't have a problem with monthly in-house inspections of life safety equipment. But, I've seen client administrators decide to do it every round because "the guard isn't doing anything else." This is the mentality that surrounds "Value Added Services" in the US. The guard's patrol function isn't a real function (it doesn't uncover things every round), so therefore, the guard is free to perform other services - ranging from life safety to janitorial.

    "Oh, the Guard just walks around. He should take the trash out while he's doing that, it'll give him something to do. And you know, a reason for us to actually pay those guys! It isn't like they earn that money, just walking around."

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by hrdickinson
    Let me clarify my point! I was speaking of "adding value" from the viewpoint of a security contractor. In those terms, a value added service or program is anything that you can offer to differentiate your company from the competition. This can run the gamut from a shiney new Ford F-150 on site, to higher paid officers with benefits, to online report generators, to guard tour systems. Tour systems are a value added feature. They can provide virtually realtime verification of presence and activities to a supervisor, or a client for that matter, depending on how they are configured.

    I don't know about the world of inhouse security but sweeping floors and similar chores is lunacy! Unless it's in the post orders, you don't do it. I would tell my people that when requested by a client to perform an unauthorized task, to be polite and call their supervisor immediately. You are there to protect the client's property and employees, not ingratiate yourself with the client contact or other employees.

    (Oh boy, I can't wait to see the heat I have to take on this one)
    These are the things that security companies are calling "value-added services" now days. It is common for a contract security guard to have such value added services as: Weigh Scale Operator, Janitoral Engineer, Concierge, First Aid Squad Member, etc.

    Some of these are not bad. The issue, of course, is that many supervisory personnel and many companies are putting these into the post orders. A common example was that a security guard was ordered to turn his "security guard" badge over to the supervisor as he showed up for work. He did so. The new one said "Securex Services," a now-bought out Tampa company, and he was told that his duties were expanded to include mopping floors. He refused, as he was not informed of this and was an armed officer. He was terminated on the spot for failing to obey his post orders.

    Value Added Services has become another term that the security companies are using to ensure that they can "prove a negative" not by articulating the security services they provide, but by adding non-security functions to the job.

    Many guards double as valets, for example. Who's watching the property while your parking cars? Nobody.

    This is why the term "Value Added Services" has been corrupted.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Tomorrow night the emergency power circuit for my 25 floor hotel will be shut off so that the newly renovated elevators can be connected to it. We will have no water, stairway lights or elevators. (It is something that has to be done there is never a good time to do it). As a result I will double my in-house staff from 1 to 2. I will also be hiring 2 agents from a contract company. 3 Managers will be there as well as a Bellboy & Houseman. There are very few check ins after 23h00. However if someone does arrive with baggage we ALL are expected to help them get to their room. Do you think the contract people are going to refuse?

    Leave a comment:


  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Adding Value

    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    I don't believe Guard Tour Services are "value-added." I believe they are a method for dealing with guard accountability issues which can be screened out by supervisor presence, post orders, and higher quality employees.

    I know what everyone is saying. "Value Added" to me means taking towels. But I honestly believe online reporting systems are both cheaper and a better value to client and company than guard log books. No one here can read my handwriting. But you can read my typing at 93 WPM with 5 percent error rating.

    Things like supervisor presence, client meetings, updating post orders... These shouldn't be added value to me. They should be in the contract from the get go! 2 year old post orders are a good way to get sued.
    Let me clarify my point! I was speaking of "adding value" from the viewpoint of a security contractor. In those terms, a value added service or program is anything that you can offer to differentiate your company from the competition. This can run the gamut from a shiney new Ford F-150 on site, to higher paid officers with benefits, to online report generators, to guard tour systems. Tour systems are a value added feature. They can provide virtually realtime verification of presence and activities to a supervisor, or a client for that matter, depending on how they are configured.

    I don't know about the world of inhouse security but sweeping floors and similar chores is lunacy! Unless it's in the post orders, you don't do it. I would tell my people that when requested by a client to perform an unauthorized task, to be polite and call their supervisor immediately. You are there to protect the client's property and employees, not ingratiate yourself with the client contact or other employees.

    (Oh boy, I can't wait to see the heat I have to take on this one)

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric
    replied
    I may not be understanding the term extremely industrial correctly. Construction, office, hospital, casino sites virtually anywhere could possibly use those ideas.
    I would imagine each state, and up here, province have different guidelines. In Ontario, we are legislated to have a H&S group depending on employee numbers. I value add as a member of it.
    Like wise with first aid kits and extinguishers. Our Department took this on to value add.

    Yes it is a good idea to inspect extinguishers (and know where they all are) while on rounds, a log though with serial numbers/date inspected/by and a tag on each unit signed monthly, would be better.

    If management are saying stop making work for us, that may be sign to move on or except the observe/report/wave free position.


    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    These are good, but extremely industrial. I've worked many sites that even asking those questions would draw funny looks from management, "we never do any of that. Stop making work for us." Of course, these are office and residential sites where the primary duty of the security officer is protection of life from criminal operations. In other words, private law enforcement.

    Even if you aren't doing the certified inspections, its a good idea to check the fire extinguisher levels. I don't believe in reading the levels of every extinguisher in the building and entering them into a log every round, however, because of the likelyhood it will turn into another guard tour system and the guard will fear "if I miss one, its an evaluation of performance, so I'll ignore that noise and continue on with my fire extinguisher check lest I forget where I'm at."

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric
    Be sure you are not stepping on any toes, specifically Union and other Workers. If a Contract, check with your Office & Client for clearance.
    Then look who is providing monthly inspections of first aid kits, extinguishers, exit lights, daily/weekly sprinkler riser readings. Read up on the rules and make a plan. I would not suggest doing the annual performance inspections to extinguishers etc. They may need to be be performed by a certified individual, plus you do not want to take on any more insurance related problems / liabilities.

    Once you start, be prepared to do it continually.

    Are you able to get on the Health and Safety committee? Sit in on the meetings?
    These are good, but extremely industrial. I've worked many sites that even asking those questions would draw funny looks from management, "we never do any of that. Stop making work for us." Of course, these are office and residential sites where the primary duty of the security officer is protection of life from criminal operations. In other words, private law enforcement.

    Even if you aren't doing the certified inspections, its a good idea to check the fire extinguisher levels. I don't believe in reading the levels of every extinguisher in the building and entering them into a log every round, however, because of the likelyhood it will turn into another guard tour system and the guard will fear "if I miss one, its an evaluation of performance, so I'll ignore that noise and continue on with my fire extinguisher check lest I forget where I'm at."

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric
    replied
    Be sure you are not stepping on any toes, specifically Union and other Workers. If a Contract, check with your Office & Client for clearance.
    Then look who is providing monthly inspections of first aid kits, extinguishers, exit lights, daily/weekly sprinkler riser readings. Read up on the rules and make a plan. I would not suggest doing the annual performance inspections to extinguishers etc. They may need to be be performed by a certified individual, plus you do not want to take on any more insurance related problems / liabilities.

    Once you start, be prepared to do it continually.

    Are you able to get on the Health and Safety committee? Sit in on the meetings?

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I don't believe Guard Tour Services are "value-added." I believe they are a method for dealing with guard accountability issues which can be screened out by supervisor presence, post orders, and higher quality employees.

    I know what everyone is saying. "Value Added" to me means taking towels. But I honestly believe online reporting systems are both cheaper and a better value to client and company than guard log books. No one here can read my handwriting. But you can read my typing at 93 WPM with 5 percent error rating.

    Things like supervisor presence, client meetings, updating post orders... These shouldn't be added value to me. They should be in the contract from the get go! 2 year old post orders are a good way to get sued.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecureTN
    replied
    Same here, too many times have I been called to sweep a parking lot, or clean the bathrooms... Where on my uniform does it say Janitorial?

    Leave a comment:

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