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Video: Security Guard Shoots Robber

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  • SecurityDir
    replied
    Communication is What we Live and Breathe

    Apologies to anyone who was offended by my prior posts. I think the thread I was responding to, had to do with who had more qualifications and training to handle crisis situations and make good judgements based on whether you were a security officer or LEO. My attempt at humor seems to have touched a sore spots with some senior members.

    Each of us has a tough job to do on a daily basis and any level of respect and appreciation for our individual "niches" or skill sets, only makes us happier and more successful at our jobs. I've worked in Healthcare Security for over 15 years (10 Army special ops) now and have seen the best and worst in the human species. I've been involved in disarming patients with knives, guns and conducted so many physical restraints I've lost count some time ago. I've seen just about everyway a human being can die and been present for many.

    I appreciate this forum to share experiences and learning opportunities as we strive to improve our crafts whichever human service track we take in life.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I'd have to agree with Lawson. The mission of a military infantry patrol is different than LE/Security. If anything it, MOUT would be more like a SWAT team (with all the stuff the SWAT team doesn't get) doing one building clear after another, over and over, once they start taking fire from an enemy position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Originally posted by SecurityDir
    To all who "think" they can survive an actual "combat" firearm situation, I invite you to strap on a flack vest, get on a plane, and head over to the middle east. Funny how those IED's don't know how "qualified" we all are. Great posts guys, I've thoroughly enjoyed the ego games.
    When I worked for TWC, I used to chat with my buddy who worked there as well on the same shift. It seemed like we would continuously get into the conversation of gun-fights. He once mentioned that getting shot at is not new to him as he was shot at while in Iraq in the Army.

    However... getting shot at in those situations and being shot at in Law Enforcement/ Security are 2 completely seperate scenarios. Typically in law enforcement or security, you are going to come under fire at a close range, taking fire from one or multiple subjects, usually resulting from a traffic stop or a citizen contact. You are typically going to be armed with only some sort of handgun to defend yourself and your backup might be anywhere up to an hour away.

    In the Military, a lot of shootouts may be anywhere from around a corner to 500yds away. With this insurgent style combat our forces tend to outnumber the enemy as you typically have a few insurgents try to pull a quick shoot-em-up on a convoy or patrol. You are likely going to be armed with some type of assault rifle and possibly a handgun or even explosives to help you win the day, your backup is usually standing right beside you.. your backup being anything from a 4 man fire-team to a convoy of tens or hundreds of soldiers with their own guns, explosives, artillery, tanks, air support, etc...

    Now on the flipside in the military you are more likely to take on heavier fire, such as from RPGs, mortars, machine guns, etc... (which aren't impossible in LE/Security, just uncommon and rare)..

    The two really aren't comperable to one another as there seems to be a completely different mode of actions and resources.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by SecurityDir
    To all who "think" they can survive an actual "combat" firearm situation, I invite you to strap on a flack vest, get on a plane, and head over to the middle east. Funny how those IED's don't know how "qualified" we all are. Great posts guys, I've thoroughly enjoyed the ego games.
    SecurityDir,

    You're off to a great start here. With only three posts, you have managed to insult several senior members of this forum, including myself.

    To bad this forum does not have a "reputation" function, because if it had a lot of red (negative rep) would be coming your way.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill Warnock
    Security Dir:
    I have maintained throughout my 40+ years in this business that: "In security and law enforcement, when we fail there are agonizing visits to hospitals, funeral homes and cemeteries. And just as important is: The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth."
    Both law enforcement and security are shared crafts, we depend upon folks we serve in either profession to share what information they have with us. And should we ever burn a source, we then become the slimmest of human to exist on this planet.
    We, in both professions, have specific functions, niches if you like, and must be willing at the drop of a hat to help the other by at least asking, "What do you want me to do?" Unless either of us is in eminent danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury, we must first ask if assistance is needed and what kind? Don't just barge in and expect a happy outcome. The world doesn't work that way.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    Bill

    You've got just about 10 years more experience than me in this game. The above advice is right on! Nothing ruins the relationship more then when people go over their bounds. I've seen it in security & I've seen it where Medical First Responders would not back off & let the Paramedics take over when they arrived. As I've stated many times my type of security is to be a first responder to any emergency. When the police, ambulance or fire department arrived I back off. I assist them if they request but once they arrive it's their show. I drill this into my employees.

    You have a great day!

    Neil

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by SecurityDir
    My point exactly Jimmyhat. We are all on the same side and each of our respective professions has it's strenghths and weaknesses. We should all strive to learn from each other because, those who don't learn from the past, are condemned to repeat it.

    Perhaps one day, we will all achieve an understanding and feeling of mutual respect for both LEO's and Safety Security Officers. We (security officers) are here to fill a void that has existed in the private sector for many years. The problem lies, where great officers leave organizations due to lack of respect for the profession. I have been very fortunate in my civilian career, to have many close acquaintences in the Law Enforcement community. We help each other out in crisis, and treat each other as peers.

    Drive on.
    Security Dir:
    I have maintained throughout my 40+ years in this business that: "In security and law enforcement, when we fail there are agonizing visits to hospitals, funeral homes and cemeteries. And just as important is: The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth."
    Both law enforcement and security are shared crafts, we depend upon folks we serve in either profession to share what information they have with us. And should we ever burn a source, we then become the slimmest of human to exist on this planet.
    We, in both professions, have specific functions, niches if you like, and must be willing at the drop of a hat to help the other by at least asking, "What do you want me to do?" Unless either of us is in eminent danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury, we must first ask if assistance is needed and what kind? Don't just barge in and expect a happy outcome. The world doesn't work that way.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • SecurityDir
    replied
    Ditto

    My point exactly Jimmyhat. We are all on the same side and each of our respective professions has it's strenghths and weaknesses. We should all strive to learn from each other because, those who don't learn from the past, are condemned to repeat it.

    Perhaps one day, we will all achieve an understanding and feeling of mutual respect for both LEO's and Safety Security Officers. We (security officers) are here to fill a void that has existed in the private sector for many years. The problem lies, where great officers leave organizations due to lack of respect for the profession. I have been very fortunate in my civilian career, to have many close acquaintences in the Law Enforcement community. We help each other out in crisis, and treat each other as peers.

    Drive on.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecurityDir
    replied
    FireArm Proficiency

    To all who "think" they can survive an actual "combat" firearm situation, I invite you to strap on a flack vest, get on a plane, and head over to the middle east. Funny how those IED's don't know how "qualified" we all are. Great posts guys, I've thoroughly enjoyed the ego games.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I've been told that the 28 hour Florida course is basically the same course the police take for firearms. They leave out the Defensive Tactics, of course, and intermediate weapons training. State only requires firearms training.

    Keep in mind this information was from a LEO and security instructor.

    I understand in some states, "here's your gun," is how they do armed security.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Don't shoot me . I simply took your post at face value as I read it. You wrote something like security guards are not trained to shoot in combate situations. I pointed out that some are. And since I'm in Canada I really have no idea how many guards take this course since only armoured car security can be armed in Canada. I figured that if it was being taught here where no one is allowed to carry a gun it was probably widespread down in the States. I hire for hotels. My people can not have guns.

    Thanks by the way for reminding me of the name. It is FATS.
    Last edited by HotelSecurity; 08-28-2006, 06:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by histfan71
    I believe you are talking about a FATS (which stands for FireArm Training Simulator or something similar) machine. While FATS can replicate a combat shootout, it has some limitations. FATS has been on the market for at least 17 years. I had my first FATS experience back in 1989. Some of the more modern combat simulators more closely resemble real life, and some even shoot plastic bullets back at you to REALLY make it more realistic. I have not yet had to opportunity to use one of those modern simulators yet, but I can't wait.

    But back on topic, how many people have you interviewed who had this course? One? Two? Out of how many applicants? You're just supporting my point that MOST security guards lack advanced training.

    I am no longer going to respond to posts that say something along the lines of "But I'm different! What you said does not apply to me!" For about the thousandth time YES I KNOW THERE ARE A FEW INDIVIDUAL EXCEPTIONS OUT THERE!!! IF YOU LOOK LONG ENOUGH AND HARD ENOUGH YOU WILL FIND AN EXCEPTION TO EACH AND EVERY RULE OUT THERE!!! I do not want to hear about the exceptions, I want to hear about the entire security field.

    When I post something that applies to only a few individuals, be they individual people or individual companies, I make sure to clearly indicate such. If I do not indicate such, then I am speaking generally about the security industry in its entirety.
    Histfan71.
    Well said. There are exceptions as you pointed out and even those could be at variance to the set of circumstances for which you now find yourself.
    I'm different, I'm this or I'm that could lead to I'm dead. Not an inspiring epitaph on the grave marker.
    Again, limn!
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    That's kind of a blanket statement to make isn't it? Before hiring people I check into the courses they have taken. A few years ago I checked a Security Officer course being offered by a private school. They did teach use of fire arms & it consisted of training with a gun with some type of laser adaptor that made images on a screen react to it's use. (I'm sure some of the more gun savy members know what system I'm talking about). It put the student in real life like situations.
    I believe you are talking about a FATS (which stands for FireArm Training Simulator or something similar) machine. While FATS can replicate a combat shootout, it has some limitations. FATS has been on the market for at least 17 years. I had my first FATS experience back in 1989. Some of the more modern combat simulators more closely resemble real life, and some even shoot plastic bullets back at you to REALLY make it more realistic. I have not yet had to opportunity to use one of those modern simulators yet, but I can't wait.

    But back on topic, how many people have you interviewed who had this course? One? Two? Out of how many applicants? You're just supporting my point that MOST security guards lack advanced training.

    I am no longer going to respond to posts that say something along the lines of "But I'm different! What you said does not apply to me!" For about the thousandth time YES I KNOW THERE ARE A FEW INDIVIDUAL EXCEPTIONS OUT THERE!!! IF YOU LOOK LONG ENOUGH AND HARD ENOUGH YOU WILL FIND AN EXCEPTION TO EACH AND EVERY RULE OUT THERE!!! I do not want to hear about the exceptions, I want to hear about the entire security field.

    When I post something that applies to only a few individuals, be they individual people or individual companies, I make sure to clearly indicate such. If I do not indicate such, then I am speaking generally about the security industry in its entirety.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by mh892
    Although a security guard may be a more accurate shot than a police officer, that same security guard would probably fall apart in an actual gunfight because security guards are not trained for combat
    That's kind of a blanket statement to make isn't it? Before hiring people I check into the courses they have taken. A few years ago I checked a Security Officer course being offered by a private school. They did teach use of fire arms & it consisted of training with a gun with some type of laser adaptor that made images on a screen react to it's use. (I'm sure some of the more gun savy members know what system I'm talking about). It put the student in real life like situations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by mh892
    Watched many actual police shoot outs?
    Yes, I have. What's your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • mh892
    replied
    Although a security guard may be a more accurate shot than a police officer, that same security guard would probably fall apart in an actual gunfight because security guards are not trained for combat[/QUOTE]

    Watched many actual police shoot outs?

    Leave a comment:

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