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  • #16
    I guess it all comes down to professionalism and indavidual work ethics. I'm not actually sure if this is covered in our policy book but I will check it this week.


    Originally posted by Bill Warnock
    Twin Cities Army Ammunition Plant, government owned-contractor-operated or GOCO, had a guard that was hitting on some of the federal employee for a date. Federal Ammunition, the contractor at that time, tried to fire him for his conduct and it didn't fly. They couldn't do it because such conduct was not in writing in Federal's standards of conduct. The US Army civilian personnel officer had to step in and Federal moved the guard to its own production plant. It took nearly a year to get that done.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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    • #17
      As an employment law specialist, I'd like to make some points:

      1. The Guardsmark anti-fraternization policy mentioned in one of the posts above prohibited employees from even holding conversations with one another outside work, and that's why it was struck down. It was a very draconian policy.

      2. We have two different issues here that are becoming intermingled: intracompany fraternization (for instance, a security supervisor and an officer) and intercompany fraternization (between an employee of the security company and an employee of the client). These should be addressed in separate policies.

      3. Most antifraternization policies address relationships between supervisors and employees who report to them, and there is no problem with having such policies, nor is the company ever likely to receive a "demand letter" to show its business reasons for such policies - the reasons are understood. In any case, the reasons are always explained in any properly-written policy.

      4. A security company has no difficulty meeting the "business reasons" hurdle with respect to an intercompany (officer/client) antifraternization policy; simply cite an unacceptable risk to the officer of conflicts of interest in the performance of his duties and potential impairment to the company/client relationship as all the business reasons you need.

      5. The best policies of either type will provide for remedial measures other than discipline or summary termination, i.e. usually involving a reassignment of one or both employees in such a way that it resolves any issues of supervisory impairment, conflict of interest, morale problems or sexual harrassment. Usually, such reassignment will be at the discretion of the company, although it would be very desirable to offer the employee a choice of reassignments if this is possible. The proposed reassignment(s) should be as comparable to their current position as possible (same shift, not excessively further from home, similar working conditions, etc.).

      Unless they are under contract, the employee, of course, always has the option of resigning rather than being reassigned, so it is not necessary to specifically offer this option in the policy itself. At-will employees always have the option of resigning anyway. However, if they do choose to resign, unless there have been other unsatisfactory aspects of their performance, the resignation should be treated without any form of prejudice whatsoever, such as withholding letters of recommendation, marking them down as "nonrehirable", etc.

      Disciplinary actions such as "sitting people down", suspending them, etc. is not a good approach to fraternization issues, which should generally be dealt with in a nonpunitive way (assuming there's nothing like sexual harrassment or something like that involved). Let's keep in mind what we're dealing with here.

      6. The "office Romeo" who dates and dumps multiple individuals creates morale problems, and you will note in the policy shown below that morale issues are given as a reason for the company to address this. The sexual harrassment policy is also likely to come into play with this individual sooner or later, and the company will have that basis as well for dealing with it.

      In my personal experience, this type of employee is usually also committing other infractions or performing poorly in terms of his assigned duties. This is because his romantic activities take priority with him, but the reason doesn't really matter. As such, I'd suggest that you go after such an employee on grounds of his poor performance, rather than the fraternization policy, meaning using the same policies that you would use with any employee who was shirking his duties for any reason. The fraternization policy will always be the weakest ground to stand on. So...if he's late (because he stopped to chat up the ladies), hit him with the attendance policy, NOT the fraternization policy. If he's found away from his post (because he's talking to his girlfriend in Accounting), hit him with violations of post orders, NOT the fraternization policy. If he's not making rounds as assigned, failing to fill in his log sheet properly, or in any other way shirking his duties, use those policies and orders as your cause of action. By so doing, you will be using policies that DO have legitimate disciplinary options available to you. Remember, though, we're talking about someone who is becoming a lousy employee, not someone who happened to fall in love at work.

      My guess is that you'll only need to use the fraternization policy when you have a situation where you have good employees who get entangled in a relationship - perhaps unintentionally - and you need to solve the problem IN A WAY THAT PRESERVES THE DIGNITY OF THOSE EMPLOYEES rather than to lose them - i.e., the authority to reassign. Again, this is NOT a punitive policy.

      7. The fraternization policy should be linked to the sexual harrassment policy because of the simple fact that when relationships break up and one of the parties does not accept the breakup, it can easily lead to stalking and similar SH situations.

      8. As with any policy, approval by corporate counsel and the use of plain, easily understood language are strongly advised. Some of the law cited in replies posted above is not accurately stated or complete, and there are a number of states that have their own laws that will impact on this policy.

      Here is an example of a policy of the intracompany (supervisor/employee) variety. It meets the requirements noted above and could be adapted to the other type of policy fairly easily. It is not to be used, however!


      Section 1. Policy Statement

      The Company's success depends on positive employee morale and good team working relationships. We recognize that sometimes personal relationships can develop between people who work together. Unfortunately, sometimes attractions are not mutual, and these situations can develop into sexual harassment complaints. In addition, relationships between supervisor and subordinate often cause morale problems or misperceptions about assignments and favoritism on the part of other employees in the work group. For these reasons, the Company has developed the following policy concerning personal relationships between employees.


      Section 2. Prohibitions

      Employees in a supervisor capacity are required to keep the relationship with any employee for whom that supervisor may give work direction or assignments, give discipline, review performance, or recommend promotions or raises on a strictly professional basis. Employees holding supervisory roles are not permitted to pursue romantic relationships with any employee who may report, either directly or indirectly, to them in their supervisor role.


      Section 3. Reporting Requirements

      Should such relationship develop inadvertently, it is the responsibility of both parties, either separately or together, to bring the fact of the relationship to the attention of someone at a level of management that is higher than both individuals involved or to the Human Resources Office. In such cases, the Company management will discuss whether the supervisor/subordinate relationship will be broken up or what other arrangements will be made to further the best interests of both the Company and the employees involved.

      The Company does not have a policy against dating between co-workers who are on the same peer level and/or are in different departments. However, if at any time any dating situation, request for dates, or any romantic pursuit between co-workers becomes unwelcome, starts to interfere with the employee's work environment or the work environment of other employees, the Company may intervene to stop such conduct, up to and including termination of the employees involved, consistent with the Company's policy against sexual harassment.
      Last edited by SecTrainer; 03-19-2007, 08:57 PM.
      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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      • #18
        I married a women i met at work and have a new son with her

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        • #19
          Originally posted by h.p.o.135
          I married a women i met at work and have a new son with her
          On this hand, you are lucky, and I congratulate you. Sometimes these relationships work out just fine. But me personally, I'd rather take caution and not even try with women I work around. My fiance actually works at a differant hospital then I do and we met at a bar. But like I said, congratulations on your new son!
          Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

          Comment


          • #20
            My wife and I met in somewhat the situations that have been discussed in the above threads. Twenty Five years later, two daughters, a son, and
            two grand daughters, can we be forgiven for violating company rules and
            living our wicked ways?
            Last edited by copelandamuffy; 03-19-2007, 09:06 PM.
            http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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            • #21
              Yeah well she quit and now works at a different hospital. I can see how it can cause problems though.

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              • #22
                we discourage it but it is not prohibited. As long as it doesn't affect your work I see know problem with it. When I was on the road you would see it alot, then it became a problem. The inmates see that and things can end badly.
                Todd

                Comment


                • #23
                  Two of our S/Os just got married, so I doubt we have any anti- S/O to S/O fraternization policy. Though I am unaware of any S/O to Clinical or Medical staff fraternization policies; however; we are proprietary security, so I doubt there is one.
                  "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                  "The Curve" 1998

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                  • #24
                    I dont go back to work until Thursday and will grab the policy then

                    We have a Security Officer whos relatonship with a Sergeant bothered others (not me really) so much that the Sergeant went to work in Maintenance instead. Now they are engaged.

                    Our problems as of late have been relationships outside the workplace. An officer gets dumped and all the sudden gets lazy. We have had 2 such cases lately. 1 went into the Army and the other, who would pitch in and help out when he was hired now just waits until he has to do something. I hate lazy people and I wish these guys would leave their emotional baggage at the door.
                    "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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                    • #25
                      Not so sure if we have one. As a matter of fact, seeing as I'm the only single supervisor there was a bet (between me and the site supervisor) as to how long it would be before I had some nurse chasing me around. Sadly I won the bet as at the end of the time frame noone was!! (that I knew of!) LOL Got me a 4 day weekend for it though and after the deadline starting seeing a Rad Tech! (BTW you know how much they make? always wanted a sugah mama!)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by GCMC Security
                        ...(BTW you know how much they make? always wanted a sugah mama!)
                        Where do I find one of those?
                        Todd

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          As long as chicks dig guys in uniform and vise a versa ( Is a thong a uniform?)then there will always be fraternization. I married my platoon sergeants daughter and have 3 grown boys that I am very proud of. He hated me before we got married and I am happy to say that nothing changed after we were married. No favouritism there by him.
                          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                          http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chucky
                            As long as chicks dig guys in uniform and vise a versa ( Is a thong a uniform?)then there will always be fraternization. I married my platoon sergeants daughter and have 3 grown boys that I am very proud of. He hated me before we got married and I am happy to say that nothing changed after we were married. No favouritism there by him.
                            I do beleave thongs are part of the uniform. Luckily for me my platoons seargent was ugly. My wife's step dad likes me but her real dad don't like me and the feelings are very mutual.
                            Todd

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BoxerGuard
                              Let em all chill together. Around here its common for managers, employees and even guards to blaze together.
                              Hmm and what exactly would that mean?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GCMC Security
                                Hmm and what exactly would that mean?
                                I think by "blaze together", he means that they all get together and set themselves on fire while cooking up their meth. They probably do this at his hovel - er, I mean "lab" - when they're supposed to be at work.

                                It's something we can hope for, anyway.
                                Last edited by SecTrainer; 03-20-2007, 07:34 PM.
                                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                                Comment

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