Question reguarding self defense

[gafarman]

I work part time for a gated community public safety department in Georgia. There we provide Fire, EMS, and Security Services. As a professional Firefighter in a major Metro Atlanta fire department I have no questions about the fire/EMS side of my job there. In this department our authority comes from a set of rules and regulations set out by a property owners association. Our coverage includes apox 3000 homes 78 miles of roadways three lakes and 3 18 hole golf courses. We enforce traffic via radar and patrol, respond to various police -like calls for service and deal with a variety of people from multi-millionares to illegal construction workers piled into vans. when asked about carrying defensive equipment the bosses say they have no policy on it and we may do so if we feel so inclined.

So now comes the question(finally). What do you recommend? To clarify I am not out to get into fights etc and I believe the use of politeness and attitude can diffuse many more situations than violence. I am however concerned with my safety and the safety of others in requard to performance of my duties.

My thoughts on the subject are to perhaps carry OC and an expandable type baton, to allow for the most flexabilty in controlling the situation with the least risk of harm as possible to myself and the assailant.

I understand that Force is the last resort and I do not need lectures as to that matter I am very familiar with the implications of using such items un-warranted. I am just seeking out some opinions from the resident experts in the matter.

[Charger]

Well, let's see here... I currently work in an apartment community.. Not quite the same, but similar I'm sure...

We carry what you just described... OC and a baton... And that hasn't changed since our department's inception 2 years ago... We've been HIGHLY successful in cleaning up our community, making our residents safer, and making the local PD happy about having one less complex to worry about...

A few of the other complexes in town have tried to emulate us, even to the point where one of them started arming their officers with sidearms... They've drawn down on suspects twice already, (in about a 6 month timeframe) and were found to be unjustified both times.. On top of that, their residents are, quite frankly, scared of them... Not only because of their guards personally, but because if they have to carry guns, their community obviously MUST be pretty bad, (in the eyes of the residents anyway)...

Recently, some of the local PD Officers have been hinting that they think we should carry tasers... PD has all but done away with OC, and almost all of them carry a taser now... So they're highly in favor of them... We've started looking into it as a possibility, but it probably won't happen for at least another 6 months or so if it does happen... I don't know what your local laws would be on that, however, so you'd have to look into it..

Anyways, I guess the point I'm trying to make is, get trained on and carry what you feel is appropriate to protect yourself, but don't go so overboard that your residents feel like they're living in a military base..

[N. A. Corbier]

Find out what your mission there is, first. If your there to protect property only, then there's no need to be responding to such calls for service. If you are there to protect people, then seek training in the following, at a minimum, so that you can use force appropriately and effective:

- Professional Communications / Verbal Judo (How to Talk)
- Unarmed Defensive Tactics (How to Fight)
- OC Spray (How to Distract)
- Expandable Baton (How to Incapacitate)
- Report Writing (How to Articulate)

Oh, yeah, an ad. How many times has your EMS agency been attacked by patients or bystanders? If you can remember a time, I suggest you take a look at dt4ems.net. If you can't... Take a look anyway, that day will come.

http://www.dt4ems.net/

[Charger]

Oh, and one other thing I forgot to touch on, after re-reading your post:

Your bosses say they have no policy on what you carry?? I'd look into getting that changed REAL quick... There needs to be SOME kind of written policy on what your Officers can/can't do...

There should also be some sort of record-keeping/documentation on the training you guys have received... You mentioned that you enforce traffic via radar and patrol... Are you actually making traffic stops then, or just casually contacting them after they've stopped somewhere? If you're making traffic stops, have you been trained on proper procedure? And if so, is it documented somewhere?

Seems to me that if you guys are charged with doing that many duties, something as simple as what to carry on your belt should have been made policy LONG ago...

[gafarman]

Yes we initiate traffic stops on a very regular basis. everything from speeding to lane deviation, to driving impaired. We remove offenders from the property if they are not property owners and issue the property owners hefty fines. We have 3-4 patrol officers on duty at any given time and we all do an average of 5-6 calls to service and traffic stops per shift. I am surprised by the lack of policy's on this matter as well. There was an altercation last week between a patrolman and a person fishing without a liscense which ultimatly resolved in O.C. being used on the offending party. the guy apparently grabbed the patrolman twice. he was repelled by the patrolman and after backing away the man ran at him so he got sprayed. The man immediatly ceased his aggression and left in S/O custody for assault and battery, and trespassing. That type event occurs apox one per month but typicly is deescalated before violence occurs. But there is always that one time ya know. We protect life, property, and peacefulness in our community. We enforce noise pollution, un respectfull behavior, and a million other things that are clearly spelled out in the rules and regulations, which is a 30 page document by the way. I agree that we need a policy in place that defines our equipment we carry and the requirements for thier use. Most of us there are current or former public safety people in some way shape or form. The patrolman who used the oc is a retired atlanta police officer. I am a professional firefighter. The other guy on our shift is former M.P.

[N. A. Corbier]

What kind of lights are used on the patrol vehicle(s)? Amber, white, red, blue? Also, what's the patrol vehicle markings say?

I ask because I can see the residents complying (They want to live there) with stops, but others might "flee" from the stop. Of course, they have to get to the exit gate...

[gafarman]

We use Red/ Red/Clear. Yes if they flee we pursuit off property. We document tag numbers and do a database look up on them and deactive thier transponder(gate opener) if they have one. They are banned from the property. We issue a temporary ban until a scheduled hearing then they can appeal. If they lose or do not show up then the ban becomes permenant by name, vehicle, DL #, and or thier entire company. The same applies to guests of property owners. Hey does anyone have a copy of a use of force policy I can use as a sample to write one and present to the powers that be for approval? We have a very open relationship with our bosses and that type of thing would be welcomed there not frowned apon.

[gafarman]

.....Anybody ?

[Mall Director]

I have worked the Private Community Security/Police Sector in my past. For the most parts, its pretty clear, but I can not say I have any experience in Georgia.. So I will get some info on it, and get you your answer!

[aka Bull]

<snip>... Hey does anyone have a copy of a use of force policy I can use as a sample to write one and present to the powers that be for approval? We have a very open relationship with our bosses and that type of thing would be welcomed there not frowned apon.

gafarman - I will check with my Director, if he has no objection I will gladly provide you a copy of the use of force policy we use at our hospital.

I'll speak with him on Monday (7-31).

Bull.

[ACP01]

Oh, yeah, an ad. How many times has your EMS agency been attacked by patients or bystanders? If you can remember a time, I suggest you take a look at dt4ems.net. If you can't... Take a look anyway, that day will come.

http://www.dt4ems.net/

Yep it does happen. Went on a call that was dispatched as "woman fell on scissors" turned out the caller forgot to mention it was an attempted suicide.

The Attemptee came at me with the scissors from the side as I stepped into the room!

[gafarman]

Thank you guy's. I just want to do the right thing for all parties while keeping myself as safe as possible.




"The most formitable opponent carries not a gun or sword, but two trained ears, two keen eyes, and a mouth hard wired shut."
"George Foreman"