Attention LEOs

[dhcp]

I've only been sifting through this forum for a few days.. but I can tell that some of you are active members of a law enforcement agency. I can already sense so much friction between law enforcement nationwide and the private/contract security industries. In another current thread, bail enforcement agents are being widely criticized, or at least questioned.

What is the problem? Not everyone who works in the security industry is a "rent a cop". There is a company here in Clearwater, Florida that is redefining the standards of the security industry. Take a alook at "Critical Intervention Services" yourself.

http://www.cisworldservices.org/

I realize the industry has its share of halfwits that can not become police officers because of a mistake they perhaps made while growing up. Sometimes their ego gets the better of them. But there are many dedicated professionals that have the utmost respect for law enforcement and contrary to what many say, do not "try" to mirror a police officer. I am in the process of developing a new security company here in Tampa, Florida that will focus on high crime areas. We will not be messing around with the ordinary white dress shirt, gold reflective badge and wanna be sheriff slacks. Our uniforms will instead be of a conservative yet tactical look.

The company I mentioned above works hand in hand with the Tampa Police Department and Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, and also in many other areas they control. Law enforcement has come to appreciate their existence. They DO stand out from the rest. I think they are a shining example of what the security industry has to offer. Compared to others, they are unquestionably prominent in the services they offer.

[Mr. Security]

If you want to see "friction," read the thread: "Cops Who Think We All Wannabe Cops."

[N. A. Corbier]

I've only been sifting through this forum for a few days.. but I can tell that some of you are active members of a law enforcement agency. I can already sense so much friction between law enforcement nationwide and the private/contract security industries. In another current thread, bail enforcement agents are being widely criticized, or at least questioned.

What is the problem? Not everyone who works in the security industry is a "rent a cop". There is a company here in Clearwater, Florida that is redefining the standards of the security industry. Take a alook at "Critical Intervention Services" yourself.

http://www.cisworldservices.org/

I realize the industry has its share of halfwits that can not become police officers because of a mistake they perhaps made while growing up. Sometimes their ego gets the better of them. But there are many dedicated professionals that have the utmost respect for law enforcement and contrary to what many say, do not "try" to mirror a police officer. I am in the process of developing a new security company here in Tampa, Florida that will focus on high crime areas. We will not be messing around with the ordinary white dress shirt, gold reflective badge and wanna be sheriff slacks. Our uniforms will instead be of a conservative yet tactical look.

The company I mentioned above works hand in hand with the Tampa Police Department and Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, and also in many other areas they control. Law enforcement has come to appreciate their existence. They DO stand out from the rest. I think they are a shining example of what the security industry has to offer. Compared to others, they are unquestionably prominent in the services they offer.

Um... Have you worked for CIS or EDI? I ask this because most folks in the "proactive security industry" around Tampa know about CIS's rep with TPD, along with EDI's rep with TPD and HCSO.

I have worked in St. Pete/Tampa since 1994. I moved up here to Cheeseland in 2004. I have been trained by S2 Institute as well as Defense Academics, and have worked various positions at Excelsior Defense, including Section 8 high crime.

I'm also the reason that EDI is deploying tasers throughout the company. It helps when you show a Taser video to the Regional Manager and the Managing Director, then go, "We should totally buy these."

CIS's reputation with the Tampa Police Department is mixed, as well as HCSO. I have had problems with TPD officers who believed I was a CIS officer. I have also had problems with HCSO who believed I was a CIS officer.

I have also had SPPD contact my communications center and advise me of a non-priority call on my property that is pending, so that EDI can go deal with it. I've been backed up on non-criminal issues by TPD, as well as backed TPD up (cancelling second unit) on criminal issues.

My point is that the hype of CIS's website is just that: propaganda designed to impress potential clients. There was a shift in 2003 with HCSO hating CIS, except for the Green Team. Granted, some HCSO deputies thought the Green Team took things too far, as well, which is one of the reasons they disliked CIS.

And some TPD officers positively hate CIS. Period.

[N. A. Corbier]

As to the Tampa company thing, I have to ask you this: How do you plan on competing against CIS in an oversaturated market? CIS owns Tampa. If you are planning to emulate CIS, know that most of their practices are protected under servicemarks.

If you are planning to go with a more traditional police look, how do you plan on competing against Excelsior Defense, which has been around since 1994, and is what most clients consider "the other alternative to CIS?"

[dhcp]

I don't need to directly compete with CIS or Execlsior Defense. The company I am establishing is going to scope out niche areas in what you've labeled "an already saturated market". Our company is going to be so small, that CIS and Excelsior is of no significance to us. Most security companies base their potential revenue off of man hours, and for a good reason. I'm not about to disclose the entirity of our business plan to you, with all do respect, but we fear no security company, as no security company will or ever should fear us. We will probably never be widelly known to the security industry and that's exactly the way we want it.

As to the Tampa company thing, I have to ask you this: How do you plan on competing against CIS in an oversaturated market? CIS owns Tampa. If you are planning to emulate CIS, know that most of their practices are protected under servicemarks.

If you are planning to go with a more traditional police look, how do you plan on competing against Excelsior Defense, which has been around since 1994, and is what most clients consider "the other alternative to CIS?"

[dhcp]

I have not worked for CIS or EDI. The point that I am making is this. Compare uniformed CIS personnel to Wackenhut or Burns Security. Not withstanding the knowledge or experience you have, and only from the perspective as an every day client, where does the integrity appear to lie?

Obviously, with CIS. I have never heard of security officers who work for Burn's taking a company influenced initiative to establish relations with law enforcement. At least CIS tries. As far as EDI, I'm not too familiar with the company. I know more about CIS than I do EDI.

And the problems CIS may or may not have with TPD and HCSO, well it must be that friction thing going on. Working security is tough. Only the strong will survive

Um... Have you worked for CIS or EDI? I ask this because most folks in the "proactive security industry" around Tampa know about CIS's rep with TPD, along with EDI's rep with TPD and HCSO.

I have worked in St. Pete/Tampa since 1994. I moved up here to Cheeseland in 2004. I have been trained by S2 Institute as well as Defense Academics, and have worked various positions at Excelsior Defense, including Section 8 high crime.

I'm also the reason that EDI is deploying tasers throughout the company. It helps when you show a Taser video to the Regional Manager and the Managing Director, then go, "We should totally buy these."

CIS's reputation with the Tampa Police Department is mixed, as well as HCSO. I have had problems with TPD officers who believed I was a CIS officer. I have also had problems with HCSO who believed I was a CIS officer.

I have also had SPPD contact my communications center and advise me of a non-priority call on my property that is pending, so that EDI can go deal with it. I've been backed up on non-criminal issues by TPD, as well as backed TPD up (cancelling second unit) on criminal issues.

My point is that the hype of CIS's website is just that: propaganda designed to impress potential clients. There was a shift in 2003 with HCSO hating CIS, except for the Green Team. Granted, some HCSO deputies thought the Green Team took things too far, as well, which is one of the reasons they disliked CIS.

And some TPD officers positively hate CIS. Period.

[Guest]

I've only been sifting through this forum for a few days.. but I can tell that some of you are active members of a law enforcement agency. I can already sense so much friction between law enforcement nationwide and the private/contract security industries. In another current thread, bail enforcement agents are being widely criticized, or at least questioned.

Allow me to be the first to respond to your comments. I have been on both sides of the fence, a police officer and a security guard, so I know of what I speak. First of all, this police vs. security topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this board, and I for one am tired of it. However, I am willing to give you my thoughts.

What is the problem? Not everyone who works in the security industry is a "rent a cop". There is a company here in Clearwater, Florida that is redefining the standards of the security industry. Take a alook at "Critical Intervention Services" yourself.

The problem in a nutshell is that the VAST majority of security guards think that the quasi-police uniform they wear gives them the same authority as a police officer, therefore, they can do the same things that a police officer can. WRONG!!! Security guards are not held to same rigid screening standards as the police nor do they receive the same exhaustive and comprehensive training that police officers must successfully complete. Without the screening and training, security guards have no business enforcing the law. I am fine with security guards who see a crime, and then report the crime to the police, and let the "real cops" take care of business. This is what security guards are for, to observe and report, AND NOTHING ELSE! Private security guards will never even supplement police officers, much less replace them as many, many of the security guards on this forum would like to see happen.

I realize the industry has its share of halfwits that can not become police officers because of a mistake they perhaps made while growing up. Sometimes their ego gets the better of them.

You have just described THE MAJORITY of the security guards in the United States, and from the horror stories I have heard from our Canadian friends on this forum, maybe in all of North America!

But there are many dedicated professionals that have the utmost respect for law enforcement and contrary to what many say, do not "try" to mirror a police officer.

Yes, there are some INDIVIDUAL security guards who are like this (many of them post on this forum) but MOST are not.

I am in the process of developing a new security company here in Tampa, Florida that will focus on high crime areas. We will not be messing around with the ordinary white dress shirt, gold reflective badge and wanna be sheriff slacks. Our uniforms will instead be of a conservative yet tactical look.

This statement, coupled with your admiration for CIS, tells me all I need to know about you and company you are trying to start. I see an arrest for impersonating a police officer in your future, please take my admittedly harsh advice and do not let that happen to you.

[Mall Director]

Wow

What a deal. I can sit back and honestly say, after working so many years in this industry (all types of security), that I have never been aware of either company. Is this a Florida thing only? Whats going on down there, or do I dare ask?

As for PD issues, I can say I presonnaly hate walking into a new department, and having to build a repore with PD. I eventually do it with great success, but more directors or chiefs/managers need to get their foot in there first thing and keep up good commo with PD, it works both ways!

[N. A. Corbier]

What a deal. I can sit back and honestly say, after working so many years in this industry (all types of security), that I have never been aware of either company. Is this a Florida thing only? Whats going on down there, or do I dare ask?

As for PD issues, I can say I presonnaly hate walking into a new department, and having to build a repore with PD. I eventually do it with great success, but more directors or chiefs/managers need to get their foot in there first thing and keep up good commo with PD, it works both ways!

Its a Florida thing. EDI is regional in the Southeastern United States, but you'll only see them at VA Police contracts, they are tasked with supplementing VA Police operations by providing police and security services at VA Outpatient clinics.

CIS is... Well, they're CIS. You won't find them outside of Tampa Bay, and they like it like that.

[Mall Director]

Are either of them ideal operations, or are they going sour like Securitas and other outfits like that?

[N. A. Corbier]

Are either of them ideal operations, or are they going sour like Securitas and other outfits like that?

Take a look at CIS's website. Take a look at EDI's website (www.excelsiordefense.com). EDI goes more after government contracting, and CIS goes after... I'm not really sure what they go after. People come to them these days. "Please save our crack-addled property." "KNEEL BEFORE US." "k." "We will save your property."

[Mr. Security]

...... However, I am willing to give you my thoughts.



The problem in a nutshell is that the VAST majority of security guards think that the quasi-police uniform they wear gives them the same authority as a police officer, therefore, they can do the same things that a police officer can. WRONG!!! Security guards are not held to same rigid screening standards as the police nor do they receive the same exhaustive and comprehensive training that police officers must successfully complete. Without the screening and training, security guards have no business enforcing the law. I am fine with security guards who see a crime, and then report the crime to the police, and let the "real cops" take care of business. This is what security guards are for, to observe and report, AND NOTHING ELSE! Private security guards will never even supplement police officers, much less replace them as many, many of the security guards on this forum would like to see happen. ....................

Your thinking is incorrect regarding the parts noted in bold print. As an unarmed (by choice), observe and report security officer, I still acknowledge that some armed security officers are entrusted with the authority to enforce certain laws, make arrests, and use deadly force if necessary. High profile sites such as nuclear power plants, privately run prisons, and the like are just a few of the places where such officers are found. If you think otherwise, simply try to trespass at such facilities and see for yourself if they just observe and report your crime.

Concerning the part about security officers supplementing law enforcement: That has already happened at the large mall in my area, and I'm confident that such trends will continue.

Please do not make statements that call into question your credibility to comment accurately about matters involving security. Doing so will only brand you as uninformed or, even worse, unwilling to accept reality.

[Guest]

High profile sites such as nuclear power plants, privately run prisons, and the like are just a few of the places where such officers are found.

Mr. Security, remember that I am speaking broadly about the contract security industry as a whole. I have always said that there are individual exceptions to this rule.

In-house security guards staff these facilities you mention, for the most part, on the West Coast. I know that Wackenhut has a private corrections division and that some nuclear plants contract with Wackenhut for security services. As I have said many different times on this forum, in-house security is a totally different animal than contract security. I guess I could have made it clearer that my comments were directed to contract security.

Concerning the part about security officers supplementing law enforcement: That has already happened at the large mall in my area, and I'm confident that such trends will continue.

Perhaps you and I have a different definition of "supplement." If these mall guards are walking around and reporting violations they become aware of to the police, I do not consider that supplementing law enforcement. I consider that good security work. If the mall guards are handling routine, non-emergency situations instead of involving the police in criminal matters (such as a security guard taking a theft report from a merchant when the suspect has already fled the scene on behalf of the police department) than that I consider supplementing law enforcement, and I think that is a bad idea.

[Jackhole]

Mr. Security, remember that I am speaking broadly about the contract security industry as a whole. I have always said that there are individual exceptions to this rule.

In-house security guards staff these facilities you mention, for the most part, on the West Coast. I know that Wackenhut has a private corrections division and that some nuclear plants contract with Wackenhut for security services. As I have said many different times on this forum, in-house security is a totally different animal than contract security. I guess I could have made it clearer that my comments were directed to contract security.



Perhaps you and I have a different definition of "supplement." If these mall guards are walking around and reporting violations they become aware of to the police, I do not consider that supplementing law enforcement. I consider that good security work. If the mall guards are handling routine, non-emergency situations instead of involving the police in criminal matters (such as a security guard taking a theft report from a merchant when the suspect has already fled the scene on behalf of the police department) than that I consider supplementing law enforcement, and I think that is a bad idea.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this post. I've worked both contract and in-house security and am currently in-house at a college. The contract gigs were just that, observe and report. I didn't fit in there and had problems with management because frankly, I'm too intelligent for a job like that. They don't want thinkers, they want someone who blindly accepts orders and carries them out. "Jasper, go sit in that guard shack until you're relieved." "Yessir!"

In-house, in my case, is completely different. We observe and report, but there's a little item in between those items called CORRECT. It may be as simple as notifying maintenance about a door that won't lock properly or it might be on the other end of the spectrum by effecting an arrest on an offender. If the law allows us to do it, we do - something contract security managers would cringe at.

Don't get me wrong, though. Both services have their place. It just gets messy when contract officers believe they have more power than they do or when a client opts for contract security when they really need an in-house force.

[bigshotceo]

a security guard taking a theft report from a merchant when the suspect has already fled the scene on behalf of the police department...is a bad idea.

I'm going to somewhat disagree on that one; there have been studies that show that as the amount of time between an event occurs and a statement is taken increases, one's accuracy in giving a state decreases. Since basic theft is often taken as a non-priority matter for the police, it can often be hours before they show up, meaning that the statments themselves are often inaccurate. As well, it means that other valuable witnesses (such as other customers) have already left the area.