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  • Help needed re a Canadian law

    We have a non guest who sits in the lobby all day long using the "free" wireless internet & sometimes even olugs his laptop into our outlets. He was a guest here for a few days but has decided to stay the summer in Montreal & took a nearby appartment. He has been warned twice now. Does any one think I can arrest him for CCC offense 326.(1)(b) and/or 342.(1)?
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

  • #2
    See an attorney if you're not sure, especially a prosecutor. Taking legal advice from a forum, no matter how well intentioned, could get you into a heap of trouble.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #3
      I'm just fishing to see what others think!
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by HotelSecurity
        I'm just fishing to see what others think!
        Then I'll need to see your fishing license...
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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        • #5
          Yeah, Prosectors will help for free.. and if you can.. get him!
          Deputy Sheriff

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          • #6
            From a fellow Canadian...

            Sure, S.326 "Theft of telecommunication device" could be used, absolutely. For that matter, the more general section of theft, specifically S.322(1)(a) (bearing in mind S.322(3) "Secrecy") could also be used.

            I used to know several mall guards who used S.430 "Mischief" (interrupting or interfering in the lawful use of property) for almost anything they encountered. It's worded, I think, to purposely make it a catch-all section.

            But I think the section you are looking for is the following:

            342.1 (1) Every one who, fraudulently and without colour of right,

            (a) obtains, directly or indirectly, any computer service,

            (b) by means of an electro-magnetic, acoustic, mechanical or other device, intercepts or causes to be intercepted, directly or indirectly, any function of a computer system,

            (c) uses or causes to be used, directly or indirectly, a computer system with intent to commit an offence under paragraph (a) or (b) or an offence under section 430 in relation to data or a computer system, or

            (d) uses, possesses, traffics in or permits another person to have access to a computer password that would enable a person to commit an offence under paragraph (a), (b) or (c)

            is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.


            By the way, here is the Criminal Code of Canada.

            wjohnc
            knowledge is power
            Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
            "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

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            • #7
              One more thing. I don't know how trespassing laws work in Quebec but here in Newfoundland once verbal notice, with witnesses, is given (although, of course, a signed document is always better) that's the end of the ballgame for the suspect. It's get out or be arrested, then the police or the Crown can add charges as you beg... I mean, as they see fit.

              btw here's what I tell suspects:

              In accordance with the laws of Newfoundland and Labrador you are hereby given verbal notice that you are not permitted to enter into or upon any (insert property or owner's name) property for a period of one year from this date. Failure to comply with this notice subjects you to arrest for trespassing. Do you understand?

              I then give them to the count of 5 to be out of the area. That's it.


              wjohnc
              Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
              "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

              Comment


              • #8
                Very unfortunately Quebec does not have a trespass to property act. I can only use "the forece necessary" to evict a trespasser. I can arrest him for "assault by a trespasser" if he actively resists. If he leaves & comes back it can go on all shift

                There is the Canadian Criminal Code article that allows for 'arrest of a trespasser on or near a dwelling place at night'. I could probably arrest a non guest found wandering in a hallway of the hotel after 21h00 & before 05h00 but in my 30 years of hotel security I have never heard of anyone being charged with this in an hotel. I was told by a Crown Prosecutor that the law was actually written for 'Peeping Toms'. He told me to go ahead & test it to see if it would stand up in a hallway of an hotel. Anyone want to come to Montreal & help me test it?
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                  Very unfortunately Quebec does not have a trespass to property act. I can only use "the forece necessary" to evict a trespasser. I can arrest him for "assault by a trespasser" if he actively resists. If he leaves & comes back it can go on all shift

                  There is the Canadian Criminal Code article that allows for 'arrest of a trespasser on or near a dwelling place at night'. I could probably arrest a non guest found wandering in a hallway of the hotel after 21h00 & before 05h00 but in my 30 years of hotel security I have never heard of anyone being charged with this in an hotel. I was told by a Crown Prosecutor that the law was actually written for 'Peeping Toms'. He told me to go ahead & test it to see if it would stand up in a hallway of an hotel. Anyone want to come to Montreal & help me test it?
                  OK if you pay my bail, attorney's fees, court costs, provide room and board for post imprisonment stress disorder recovery - and see to it I get the use of the mini bar - FREE! Deal?
                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aka Bull
                    OK if you pay my bail, attorney's fees, court costs, provide room and board for post imprisonment stress disorder recovery - and see to it I get the use of the mini bar - FREE! Deal?
                    Why do you think I'm looking for opinions on the forum? Lawyers cost money! They won't pay for a lawyer, fat chance I'd be able to get you more than the Freinds & Family rate on a room I hear that Bordeaux prison is somewhat like the hotel. (Minus the swimming pool, mini bar etc etc )
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Have you just tried talking to this guy? Maybe he'll get the idea that non-guests are not permitted to do what he's doing. Just talking with people, or the next step of confronting people often gets the job done without getting the law involved.

                      And, you know, if that doesn't work you could just intimidate - if there was a different word for that I'd use it - him away by standing over him. I do this at my post, but if the subject (and I am always sure they're going to steal before using this technique) gets offended I tell him that where I'm standing has a good view of the area, that I'm just doing my job by 'watching out'.

                      wjohnc
                      Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
                      "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wjohnc
                        Have you just tried talking to this guy? Maybe he'll get the idea that non-guests are not permitted to do what he's doing. Just talking with people, or the next step of confronting people often gets the job done without getting the law involved.

                        And, you know, if that doesn't work you could just intimidate - if there was a different word for that I'd use it - him away by standing over him. I do this at my post, but if the subject (and I am always sure they're going to steal before using this technique) gets offended I tell him that where I'm standing has a good view of the area, that I'm just doing my job by 'watching out'.

                        wjohnc
                        I talked to him & threw him out the other day. I explained that he was "stealing a service". He said he understood. My problem was this was the 2nd time he had been told this. Working in the hospitality industry I still can be very inhospitable. In private I told him that he obviously didn't understand, he had come back. I made it clear I'd arrest him if I caught him again. He has not come back. My post was to test the waters to see if others thought I could really charge him with the crimes I mentioned.

                        As fior imtimidating. I'm good at that In the days before escort services the "working girls: used to hang arouind the bar. When we'd spot one. two Officers would enter the bar. We'd clip our badges to our jackets & sit on the bar stools on either side of her with our walkie-talkies on the bar. We'd order Cokes & wait to see how long it would take her to get up & leave! For some reason business seemed to drop when she was surroinded by hotel security.
                        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                          In the days before escort services the "working girls: used to hang arouind the bar. When we'd spot one. two Officers would enter the bar. We'd clip our badges to our jackets & sit on the bar stools on either side of her with our walkie-talkies on the bar. We'd order Cokes & wait to see how long it would take her to get up & leave! For some reason business seemed to drop when she was surroinded by hotel security.
                          Yeah, and then converse like there was nobody there!

                          Gods, sometimes this job is so much fun it outta be illegal.

                          wjohnc
                          Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
                          "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

                          Comment

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