Bounty Hunters

[Mr. Security]

A/K/A Fugitive Recovery Agents

I am confused about the degree of legislative attention given to the security field verses the lack thereof for FRA's. Why are they permitted to exercise such liberal use of force and search powers?

While it's true that the US Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so, and the individual signed away his/her rights when they bonded out, I still don't agree with the latitude that they are afforded, especially in view of their training and poor candidate screening. What do you think?

[aka Bull]

A/K/A Fugitive Recovery Agents

I am confused about the degree of legislative attention given to the security field verses the lack thereof for FRA's. Why are they permitted to exercise such liberal use of force and search powers?

While it's true that the US Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so, and the individual signed away his/her rights when they bonded out, I still don't agree with the latitude that they are afforded, especially in view of their training and poor candidate screening. What do you think?

You sent me scrambling to find the law for bounty hunters here in Colorado. It seems all they need is to submit fingerprints for a criminal history check, not have a felony conviction, and attend 16 hours (maximum) of training in being a bail recovery agent as outlined by the state POST authority. That's it - you're a bounty hunter in Colorado.

I know there are limits to what they can do in Colorado - such as we may prevent them from entering our property for the purpose of recovering a fugitive. If we find a bounty hunter, or bail bondsman, on property trying to do so we will immediately order them off property. Should they refuse then we have a criminal trespass in progress - arrest time.

The Supreme Court, IMHO, ruling that bounty hunters rely upon today was decided in the latter 1800's, a danged long time ago for this modern age of society. There are some states that heavily restrict, or outright ban, bounty hunters - but sadly I don't think enough is done to regulate this industry. This is an issue I would love to see revisited by the Supreme Court.

It's sad when states will give the people working as bail recovery agents more freedom of action that they will to security officers working in more defined limits and having more respect for the legal processes and rights of individuals.

[N. A. Corbier]

The problem with regulation is that 1) Bondsman are Insurance Agents and usually regulated by the Department of Insurance, not a criminal justice authority (But then security is usually regulated by Department of Consumer Protection), 2) the Supreme Court ruling made it plain that the retaking of a fugitive is a private matter between bond petitioner and absconder. The only reason that law enforcement and legislative authorities even regulate it is consumer protection.

They get no less and no more authority than any other citizen. The insane amount of power they get is because they are 3rd Party Agents of a person who has complete power of attorney over that invidividual's person and property.

A bondsman can kick down an absconder's door because the absconder doesn't own the door at that point - the bondsman does.

[HotelSecurity]

They don't exist in Canada. We only get to watch "The Dog" on TV

[N. A. Corbier]

They don't exist in Canada. We only get to watch "The Dog" on TV

Third Party Bondsmen are illegal in WI.

[T202]

A/K/A Fugitive Recovery Agents

I am confused about the degree of legislative attention given to the security field verses the lack thereof for FRA's. Why are they permitted to exercise such liberal use of force and search powers?

While it's true that the US Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so, and the individual signed away his/her rights when they bonded out, I still don't agree with the latitude that they are afforded, especially in view of their training and poor candidate screening. What do you think?

Good point. In Michigan a Security Officer can not possess a taser but a "bail agent" can. Security companies are regulated by the State but bail agents are not. Doesn't make sense.

[CAR54]

I had a friend here in California that said he had a side job as a bounty hunter and asked if I wanted to hang with him sometime and see what it entails as he was looking for a partner. He told me it was very easy to get all the permits and he even carried a badge which was issued for bounty hunting. He was a skinny guy with no law enforcement training of any kind and I really thought it was all a joke. So we meet and he tells me we'll be looking for a gang banger that jumped bail and we start hitting all these Asian night clubs (he is Asian BTW..I'm just a big dumb white guy). He followed the same MO at all the clubs. He'd walk to the front of the line, flash his VERY official looking badge, and breeze right in. Often the managers would seat us at the nicest tables and bring us appetizers.

He explained that no one ever bothers to actually read what the badge says or study his permits, everyone just assumes he's some type of law enforcement official..maybe a detective..maybe DEA..who knows. As I was sure he was probably breaking a few laws I passed on the offer to be his "partner". I was also worried that if anything did go down he'd be pretty useless and I'd be hiding under the table.

As far as I know he never did catch anyone.

[Lawson]

He followed the same MO at all the clubs. He'd walk to the front of the line, flash his VERY official looking badge, and breeze right in. Often the managers would seat us at the nicest tables and bring us appetizers.

He explained that no one ever bothers to actually read what the badge says or study his permits, everyone just assumes he's some type of law enforcement official..maybe a detective..maybe DEA..who knows. As I was sure he was probably breaking a few laws I passed on the offer to be his "partner". I was also worried that if anything did go down he'd be pretty useless and I'd be hiding under the table.

A lot of people dont know that Bail Enforcement Agents are not LE. I think in a lot of states it is illegal to prevent a BEA from apprehending their suspect, just like it would be illegal to prevent someone from going somewhere to retrieve their property... nothing more, nothing less. So basically, the way I see it, if security is dumb enough to let him just walk into the club with no questions asked and give him free food, thats too bad for them. Unless he said, "Agent Doe, U.S. Marshals." I would not view that as impersonation. If the badge clearly says "Bail Enforcement Agent" then the security officer at the door had the proper ability to correctly identify him as such, and since he failed to do so, any loss of profit should not fall on the Bail Enforcement Agent. Now, more liability would be assertained by the BEA if he was requested to represent the badge or re-identify himself and he refused, or as said before, CLEARLY identified himself as a law enforcement officer.

Now, just to CMA (No, not country music award.) Let me explain my statement about them being able to go anywhere they want to apprehend a suspect. If security grants them access to the club, they are O.K. as far as I am concerned. It would be just like someone saying, "Hey, I left my keys on the bar, may I go inside to get them." However, they may not break a law to complete their job. So if they think their suspect is in a Locked up business, they cant come busting through the front door after shooting the lock off to enter. Just as the same forgetful person cannot do so to get their keys.

[Mr. Security]

..... However, they may not break a law to complete their job. So if they think their suspect is in a Locked up business, they cant come busting through the front door after shooting the lock off to enter. Just as the same forgetful person cannot do so to get their keys.

I don't know about businesses, but if they confirm that a fugitive is hiding in someone else’s house, I believe that they can break down the door to get them. I may be misinformed about that, but I think that's one of the "powers" that I'm referring too.

[Mall Director]

You sent me scrambling to find the law for bounty hunters here in Colorado. It seems all they need is to submit fingerprints for a criminal history check, not have a felony conviction, and attend 16 hours (maximum) of training in being a bail recovery agent as outlined by the state POST authority. That's it - you're a bounty hunter in Colorado.

I know there are limits to what they can do in Colorado - such as we may prevent them from entering our property for the purpose of recovering a fugitive. If we find a bounty hunter, or bail bondsman, on property trying to do so we will immediately order them off property. Should they refuse then we have a criminal trespass in progress - arrest time.

The Supreme Court, IMHO, ruling that bounty hunters rely upon today was decided in the latter 1800's, a danged long time ago for this modern age of society. There are some states that heavily restrict, or outright ban, bounty hunters - but sadly I don't think enough is done to regulate this industry. This is an issue I would love to see revisited by the Supreme Court.

It's sad when states will give the people working as bail recovery agents more freedom of action that they will to security officers working in more defined limits and having more respect for the legal processes and rights of individuals.

Were you also aware that a simple "program pruchase" with CBI (Colorado Bureau Of Investigations, a State Agency tied to federal) and you can get background checks over the internet? Wild huh? It runs somewhere around $40 a month.

As for the whole "Bail Recovery" issue...... Thats some scary stuff! It straight out freaks me out! I dont think I would ever want to work that sector, as the dangers are way up there, and the legal litigation is far more comprehensive than that of Security. Not to mention, I like a suit and tie and uniforms, over wife beater T-Shirts, camo pants, MK-9 side tools strapped to my leg like a firearm, mullets and women with extremely large breasts! LOL! Humor, gotta have it!

[N. A. Corbier]

I don't know about businesses, but if they confirm that a fugitive is hiding in someone else’s house, I believe that they can break down the door to get them. I may be misinformed about that, but I think that's one of the "powers" that I'm referring too.

They may not. The only person's property they may forcibly enter is the defendant's, because the defendant gives the bondsman (who is NOT the bounty hunter, he's the guy who writes the bond) power of attorney.

If you've ever read a bail contract, you'll notice that its basically a promise to appear, honor the conditions of contract, and a notification that the bondsman may revoke the bond and remand the defendant to the court's custody for any or no reason.

Lets say you bond a friend out. Its you're butt (your money) on the line. You now have all the "powers" of a "bail agent." In some states, you can hire a professional recovery person and bestow the power of attorney you hold against the defendant on them.

This is why its a "private matter" and they can revoke bail at any time of day or night, on the sabbath, or cross interstate lines to do so. It isn't a police function.

[Mr. Security]

They may not. The only person's property they may forcibly enter is the defendant's, because the defendant gives the bondsman (who is NOT the bounty hunter, he's the guy who writes the bond) power of attorney....

Thanks, guys, for the clarification. This is one time when I'm glad that I was wrong.

[Black Caesar]

We have bail enforcement agents in Texas, but they can't carry firearms. not a job I'd want...

[Lawson]

Bondsmen cant carry firearms in Texas?! You mean you can work a Burger King drive-thru with a non-concealed firearm, but you cant be a bail bondsman with the same?

[Michael Ledgerwood]

They may not. The only person's property they may forcibly enter is the defendant's, because the defendant gives the bondsman (who is NOT the bounty hunter, he's the guy who writes the bond) power of attorney.

If you've ever read a bail contract, you'll notice that its basically a promise to appear, honor the conditions of contract, and a notification that the bondsman may revoke the bond and remand the defendant to the court's custody for any or no reason.

Lets say you bond a friend out. Its you're butt (your money) on the line. You now have all the "powers" of a "bail agent." In some states, you can hire a professional recovery person and bestow the power of attorney you hold against the defendant on them.

This is why its a "private matter" and they can revoke bail at any time of day or night, on the sabbath, or cross interstate lines to do so. It isn't a police function.

State of Washington a FRA may enter any establisment by any force necessary to retrieve their fugitive. The catch is the FRA MUST know and prove that the fugitive is in there - no guessing. A homeowner may shoot an FRA for residential burglary and not be charged even if said fugitive is in the house.