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  • #16
    Originally posted by P68
    Contract Security Guards at the facility I work at start at $10.25 as a regular guard. $14.42 for the shift Lieutenant. No real benefits to speak of other than a weeks vacation and a real crappy accident and injury insurance plan. The in house security officers at the facility start around $15.00/hr full benifits. 3 weeks vacation, blue cross/blue shield, 401k, delta dental, and more. This is a large metropolitan hospital. Officers are unarmed and have no police powers.
    Semantics question: What's the difference between a Contact Security Guard and an in house security officer? I noticed that you consistantly use the term guard for the contract personnel, and officer for the in house?

    I ask people to evaluate why they use the terms they use on a regular basis, to see if it was ingrained upon them, or if they came to it themselves.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
      Semantics question: What's the difference between a Contact Security Guard and an in house security officer? I noticed that you consistantly use the term guard for the contract personnel, and officer for the in house?

      I ask people to evaluate why they use the terms they use on a regular basis, to see if it was ingrained upon them, or if they came to it themselves.
      No particular reason why i use Guard and Officer. Same thing different name as far as i am concerned. The difference between a contract officer and an in house one is the person who signes the paycheck. Contract guards work for a company who provides security services to the client. The client, in this case a hospital, has in house officers that work directly for the hospital. There are usually 2 in house officers per shift. One as a dispatcher and one as the officer in charge/supervisor who represents the client to the public and other agencies. The rest of the shift is made up of contract security personell. the contract security service also provides a supervisor but that supervisor only has authority to deal with the contract security service's matters and not those of the client.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
        That seems counter-productive. The headaches from dealing with contract/direct employee disputes plus the liability of having your own in-house guards doesn't seem worth having 2 sets of guards.

        Go all contract, or stay in-house IMO. Not both.
        I have to agree. Most companies take contract security to reduce actual and perceptual liability concerns. Its not your percieved or actual liability policy that's protecting the hospital now, its the security company's.

        To introduce your own uniformed security in a supervisory position above the contract increases the real liability of the site, because now, any agrieved party can sue the contract company for executing the orders, and the hospital for its guards issuing them.

        Not to mention the little fifedoms that exist between employees of the same pay grade (security officer vs. security officer) believing one is better than the other because they are "in-house," as if this social status means anything.

        Careful attention to discipline in the contract security force is required in these circumstances, not to detect lapses in discipline by the contract force, but by the in-house force using them in ways that the contract does not specify, or attempting to directly discipline them.

        I can see a uniformed supervisor/client representative, but not regular security officers. It is a duplication of services. If the client cannot train the security department to represent itself, then the client may need to reconsider using a contract force.

        Oh, hell, I'm starting to type like Bill Warnock.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #19
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          University of Wisconsin Protective Services, Carthage College, Saint Petersburg College...

          Police does not imply a public authority in every state.
          So people working at those places are called police officers but have no police powers or authority? Some private colleges/universities have an actual police force. A lot of people might think they are security officers but they are actually police officers.

          Some private colleges/universities have an actual police force. A lot of people might think they are security officers but they are actually police officers. The public often equates campus or university police with security. A lot of people don?t realize the difference until they are the subject of some sort of enforcement action.
          Last edited by Tennsix; 10-25-2005, 11:38 PM.
          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
          -Lieutenant Commander Data
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Tennsix
            So people working at those places are called police officers but have no police powers or authority? Some private colleges/universities have an actual police force. A lot of people might think they are security officers but they are actually police officers.

            Some private colleges/universities have an actual police force. A lot of people might think they are security officers but they are actually police officers. The public often equates campus or university police with security. A lot of people don?t realize the difference until they are the subject of some sort of enforcement action.
            University of Wisconsin has University Police Officers, but there is case law explaining how that came about. They used to have "security police officers," or "security officers," or whatever you wanted to call them. They were a political subdivision of the state, yet were not sworn law enforcement officers. Wisconsin law authorizes a citizen to make an arrest for any breach of the peace committed in their presence or about to be committed, or reasonable belief it will be committed again. The schools used this power, and the lack of security licensing, to simply issue guns, badges, and uniforms to people, and give them a law enforcement mission. The Teamster's union finally went to bat for them and said, "You have to pay them as police, they're doing the job of the police." The defense was "They're private police, not public." That didn't fly, because the officers were employed by a public institution.

            The term "Police Officer" in Wiscosnin can mean a "Private Police Officer," who does not require to be sworn, or a "Public Law Enforcement Officer," who does require to be sworn.

            Also, I haven't heard of private institutions having public law enforcement agencies. I know that in Florida, the Junior Colleges can't afford to have police, so they hire security companies and give them a bunch of statutory redefinitions (Battery becomes a felony, ability to write tickets, etc) that apply only when working for a regent board of a state JC.
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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            • #21
              Interesting. I have never heard of such situation.

              I am a police officer a major state university PD. We are regular officers just like any other PD. My PD operates one of the state?s three police academies and our graduates go on to all levels of criminal justice and law enforcement. For a long time, we had the only SWAT team in the area and they were routinely called out to other jurisdictions. I have worked for a city PD and a county SO, so I can genuinely say we are no different. As a matter of fact, I left the SO to work for the university PD. Excellent pay, excellent training, outstanding officers, and plenty to do.

              In Indiana, only a bona fide police officer may utilize that title. Most of our PD?s are government agencies but there are a few private police agencies (private university and rail road agencies). The private cops are the real deal.
              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
              -Lieutenant Commander Data
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tennsix
                Interesting. I have never heard of such situation.

                I am a police officer a major state university PD. We are regular officers just like any other PD. My PD operates one of the state?s three police academies and our graduates go on to all levels of criminal justice and law enforcement. For a long time, we had the only SWAT team in the area and they were routinely called out to other jurisdictions. I have worked for a city PD and a county SO, so I can genuinely say we are no different. As a matter of fact, I left the SO to work for the university PD. Excellent pay, excellent training, outstanding officers, and plenty to do.

                In Indiana, only a bona fide police officer may utilize that title. Most of our PD?s are government agencies but there are a few private police agencies (private university and rail road agencies). The private cops are the real deal.
                I've heard good things (mostly) about university police departments. Bigger budgets, less BS, etc. I've worked with USF police (Our sites were in USF jurisdiction), and found them to be professional, and useful.

                I'm unfamiliar with any private college that is afforded police powers for its safety staff. The Railroad Police, on the other hand, all seem to have some kind of quazi-federal authority, as well as state authority. While the days of CSX Police firing buckshot at a fleeing hobo may be gone (I hope) for the simple crime of trespass, they're still out there.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well, university PD?s are just like any other. They come in good, bad and everything in between. As for private universities with PD's, Butler and Norte Dame Universities (both indiana univ's) are two examples of private police agencies with full powers.

                  Another fallacy is that university police are restricted to campus/university grounds. Indiana case law allows all police officers to excerise their powers throughout the state. Additionally, our PD has reciprocity with county sheriff?s department

                  When people ask if we are real cops I come back with, "Would you ask a university mechanic, physician, aircraft pilot, architect, or firefighter if they are genuine? The answer is always "no". Then why would you question our authenticity?
                  I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                  -Lieutenant Commander Data
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tennsix
                    Well, university PD?s are just like any other. They come in good, bad and everything in between. As for private universities with PD's, Butler and Norte Dame Universities (both indiana univ's) are two examples of private police agencies with full powers.

                    Another fallacy is that university police are restricted to campus/university grounds. Indiana case law allows all police officers to excerise their powers throughout the state. Additionally, our PD has reciprocity with county sheriff?s department

                    When people ask if we are real cops I come back with, "Would you ask a university mechanic, physician, aircraft pilot, architect, or firefighter if they are genuine? The answer is always "no". Then why would you question our authenticity?
                    People don't seem to get that "political subdivision of the state" part.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hey, im new here.

                      Im from Canada, and I take it most of you are from the USA. Anyways, I work for a large health region, and am involved with the Hospital Security part of things. Our pay scale ranges from 17.33-32.65.

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                      • #26
                        Adding two cents, if I can afford them:
                        Most of the security companies I have seen in north Texas pay an average wage of $8.50 per hour with no insurance benefits. Additional income can be made by working a regular and large amount of overtime, which every place seems to have plenty of since their turnover rate of employment is high. I, for one work an average of 60 hours per week, but sometimes as much as 90 hours per week. There are a few places I have seen that compensate a bit more, but with no overtime available.
                        Very few companies are able to provide affordable health insurance here. That benefit is usually available to security officers who work for an "in-house" security operation, aka security department of private business, but not to those who work for a contract security operation, which is the more prominent type of security.
                        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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                        • #27
                          Resurecting this thread since my W-2 tax form came in the mail this week. Here's the run down.
                          Hired fulltime in Louisiana for a contract Security Company in Febuary 2005 as unarmed Security Officer with Emergency Medical Technician duties.
                          Pay is $10.50 per hour and I work 12 hour night shifts, 6pm-6am.
                          Pay period is Bi weekly and I'm usually scheduled for a total of 84 hours per period (80 straight and 4 overtime) with occasional overtime shifts due to covering for fellow EMTs who were off duty.
                          According to my W-2 form, Box 1, Wages, Tips, Other Compensation- $20722.30.
                          Anyone else want to share?
                          Hospital Security Officer

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                          • #28
                            Not that I have gottne my w-2 for this year but I know in 2004 returns I grossed 38,986. This year I look for about a negative 10,000 this tax season.

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                            • #29
                              Here in Birmingham the average pay is 5.15-7.00 an hour, armed or not. I make 9.00. Alabama is unregulated totaly in the security field. You can can wear any badge or patch as long as it doesnt acutally say "POLICE or SHERIFF on it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by medic15al
                                Here in Birmingham the average pay is 5.15-7.00 an hour, armed or not. I make 9.00. Alabama is unregulated totaly in the security field. You can can wear any badge or patch as long as it doesnt acutally say "POLICE or SHERIFF on it.
                                I've heard stories about Alabama. When an old company I worked for took over a VA Police account, the guards were prepared to gratify the operations manager. He gave them Flying Cross Shirts, Flying Cross Pants, Duty Rigs, Pepper Spray, Handcuffs, and did a day long certification on OC and handcuffing.

                                There were remarks stated that 1) The previous outfit gave them two patches to sow on a shirt and jacket, 2) they would do anything the operations manager wanted. And I mean anything.
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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