Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Whats your "style"?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    If your within 21 feet of the threat, you basically have two choices. Avoidance, or engagement.

    I do have to note that turning 180 degrees and running will probably result in a knife in your back. Distance is good, but so is putting obstacles in the assailant's path. The trick is to gain time to either escape or engage with firearm or, in some cases, taser. Anything ranged that will stop the threat.

    So, I'm going to have to say that a middle ground is perferable to Bill and Lawson's roads. Running away is good - if you can do it safely. Till you can, tactical movement is key. This tactical movement should be part of the plan you have formulated to get out alive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    I have to disagree with this one. When you are in the 21ft range and it is action time, your best manuver, IMO, is to get out of the way, it is much harder to try to get someone who is moving to the side than trying to head straight on.

    I have read all the safety thing, and seen all sorts of tapes, they were required watching material when I got Taser Certified. See how long it takes you to run 21 ft from a stop, then see how long it takes you to run straight 21 ft then have to make an unexpected change in direction. This is very beneficial to the officer when every second counts.

    I personally, when possible try to use a small barrier, or have one available to me in close proximity. A chair, my car hood, a desk , a standing ashtray, a stump, a parking meter, One of those little curb things in parking lots, anything that could cause a bit of a harder charge.


    edit: Im not trying to say this makes the 21ft area okay to stand in... I feel it is just a more effective manuver when it is "go" time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
    I know this is coming in a little late, but in regards to the 21 foot rule... I saw someone mention you dont have enough time to step backwards from them.

    ...dont.

    I have found the sidestep to be much more effective. Now, they have to make a turn in their attack which throws off their original intent of charging straight at you.
    First: Please read all N.A. Corbier's posts. Second: On a plain sheet of white paper, use a small protractor and with a pencil, draw around it. You will see the straight line represents 180 degrees. The curved portion represents the 21-foot rule. You can move to your right or left and as long as you are within that 21-foot semi-circle, you are in danger. Get yourself out of that danger.
    Your objective is to do your duty and then go home. You cannot do that if you are in the hospital or on a slab in the morgue.
    Watch Corbier's recommended video. Notice the marks on the defender's arms or chest made by the magic marker.
    Remember always, the guy with the knife knows what he proposes to do. You don't.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    I know this is coming in a little late, but in regards to the 21 foot rule... I saw someone mention you dont have enough time to step backwards from them.

    ...dont.

    I have found the sidestep to be much more effective. Now, they have to make a turn in their attack which throws off their original intent of charging straight at you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by wjohnc
    .....
    I also swear.....
    "Like a sailor." Another one who can't express his viewpoint w/o using excessive profanity. IGNORE BUTTON ACTIVATED!!

    Leave a comment:


  • wjohnc
    replied
    Snickers, rocks, OTJ training

    Oops, forgot something...


    Yeah, 'Ask Tell Make', that's the way to go.

    And speaking of intel, and being nice: I once arrested a dude for theft (I think he did it to be sent back to jail - all his buddies are there), who, in the three hours we waited for the cops to come, did a lot of talking about who was who in the 'hood, criminal-wise. I took a lot of mental notes, and when he started to get tired I gave him a Snickers bar I had in my pocket.

    The guy's eyes actually welled up! He was hungry (very obvious) and in about 30 arrests (including one for breaking a guy's skull with a rock) had never been treated with the respect and kindness that I had shown him that day.

    He kept talking, and I had no issues of violence whatsoever from him.


    This is how it's done when you don't have formal training, equipment, or backup. All by myself, all the time. I've learned s** that people spending $40 000 don't learn. Shame.

    wjohnc

    Leave a comment:


  • wjohnc
    replied
    Det. Columbo, anyone?

    Style. Yeah.

    11 years ago it was don't look and maybe the problem will go away.

    These days, after all those years of doing without gun, baton, OC, radio, partner, or often even a phone, I've learned how to talk with people, and how to talk to them when I need to.

    That said, I have a reputation in the whole city, not just my current employer, as a problem-solver and a peacemaker. I didn't get that by being the drill sergeant, by coming off as a pr**k.
    I did that by treating everyone with courtesy and respect. And by using the familiar tone, phrases, and demeamor.
    Actually, I'm really amazed how well that approach works.

    I also swear.

    Yeah, everybody thinks that SO aren't allowed to swear on the job, but TS! How many times have I said someone is full of s**t, or simply to f*** off, both done in the familiar tone, with a grin or a smile (works best with groups of teens).

    And if someone really gives me s**t? Humiliate them. I demean them, verbally, loudly and publically as I can.

    I'm also kinda' goofy, a la Columbo.

    I've sometimes made people think it's too much trouble to deal with me because I lay on the Columbo act so they just leave. I'm not too big a man to put away my pride. As long as they do what I want them to do (even if they think it was their idea), and with a minimum of work and paperwork, then I'm happy.

    I use these styles according to the subject, the environment, and how bad I want the SOB. Whatever works, man, whatever works.

    wjohnc

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Always treat others regardless of their standing in life, as you would want to be treated. I sincerely believe that physical confrontations can be greatly reduced by treating the subject with respect and dignity, even if an arrest must be made. If hostage negotiators can talk desperate fugitives into releasing their hostages and surrendering peacefully, then we know that the tongue can be an effective tool in resolving, or conversely, escalating a situation.

    Granted, circumstances may limit the time we can spend reasoning with a person, but we can at least try it before using force.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by histfan71
    I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on that. I have gotten great intel from homeless people in the past, all for the price of a kind word.

    This also works well with prostitutes. The hookers in the neighborhood know all the local punks and thugs (and even some outside the neighborhood) and if your treat them with a little human kindness and decency they will share what they know.
    Histfan71, I've interviewed prostitutes and sometimes their pimps. We were able to bust up a +++++ ring. On your voucher, under other expenses, you just put the dollar figure down. When your division chief asks, you tell him and he initials the voucher. If she charges $20 for 20-minutes, you get 20-minutes of good and I might add, solid intell.
    In my world now, if in doubt, out of pocket expenses. It does matter and we as a profession are that much better off.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by jakeslife
    I am not in the business of gathering street intel though. My job is to clear them off property.
    That is fine, do your job, but always be ready with a kind word, a cup of hot coffee or a Big Mac. As you move them on engage in an interview, which is a conversation with a purpose.
    Armed with that intell, you might find out about a pending theft or attack that just might save your client money and you your life.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • jakeslife
    replied
    I am not in the business of gathering street intel though. My job is to clear them off property.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Bill Warnock
    In my line of work, as a government employee and now as a consultant, some of the best intelligence came from homeless folks sleeping where they should not have been.
    A kind word and something to eat or drink seems to do the trick. The word spreads and you get more intell than you can handle. I am prepared for the ringer, but that is part of this business. You sift, keep what it good and trash the rest.
    If you are about to be set up and the homeless person speaks up and scares the bad folks off, you are miles ahead in your mission.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on that. I have gotten great intel from homeless people in the past, all for the price of a kind word.

    This also works well with prostitutes. The hookers in the neighborhood know all the local punks and thugs (and even some outside the neighborhood) and if your treat them with a little human kindness and decency they will share what they know.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by jakeslife
    I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.
    There are plenty of folks who believe "Ask Make Tell" goes like this.

    Officer: "The hotel manager says you have to leave, your no longer wanted here. Please do not return. Do you understand?"
    Idiot: "F- you, pig, I'm not leaving."

    Officer: "Fine, I'm going to go call the police and they'll make you leave."
    Idiot: "Too much for you, eh? Can't make me leave yourself, pu--- a-- rent-a-pig?"

    Police Officer Arrives
    Idiot walks off property, and goes, "I'm leaving now that the REAL police are here."
    Police Officer agrees that only the real police can make them leave.

    Value of security guard in this instance? Minimal. Deterrance function failed. Non-confrontational advisement failed. Lawful order failed. Police summoned. Police Presence caused compliance. Result: Manager should of called police in first place.

    Ask, Make, Tell:
    Ask - "Hello. Are you staying here? I'm going to have to ask you to leave, because this area is for guests only. Will you leave?"
    Tell - "I said you have to leave. If you don't leave now, you'll be removed."
    Make - *overcome passive or active resistance, remove to property line* "If you come back, your going to jail for trespass after warning."

    Vlue of security guard in this instance: Great.
    Deterrance Function: Failed
    Non-Confrontational Advisement: Possibly failed, will not fail for those witnessing.
    Lawful Order: Succeded, when backed up by physical force.
    Police were not summoned.
    Result: Officer has shown to BG that rules will be enforced, and his presence will not be tolerated. Witnesses shown that security is effective in establishment, and not just another cell phone toting 911-dialing rent-a-cop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by jakeslife
    I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.
    In my line of work, as a government employee and now as a consultant, some of the best intelligence came from homeless folks sleeping where they should not have been.
    A kind word and something to eat or drink seems to do the trick. The word spreads and you get more intell than you can handle. I am prepared for the ringer, but that is part of this business. You sift, keep what it good and trash the rest.
    If you are about to be set up and the homeless person speaks up and scares the bad folks off, you are miles ahead in your mission.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • jakeslife
    replied
    I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X