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  • #31
    Originally posted by histfan71
    I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on that. I have gotten great intel from homeless people in the past, all for the price of a kind word.

    This also works well with prostitutes. The hookers in the neighborhood know all the local punks and thugs (and even some outside the neighborhood) and if your treat them with a little human kindness and decency they will share what they know.
    Histfan71, I've interviewed prostitutes and sometimes their pimps. We were able to bust up a +++++ ring. On your voucher, under other expenses, you just put the dollar figure down. When your division chief asks, you tell him and he initials the voucher. If she charges $20 for 20-minutes, you get 20-minutes of good and I might add, solid intell.
    In my world now, if in doubt, out of pocket expenses. It does matter and we as a profession are that much better off.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

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    • #32
      Always treat others regardless of their standing in life, as you would want to be treated. I sincerely believe that physical confrontations can be greatly reduced by treating the subject with respect and dignity, even if an arrest must be made. If hostage negotiators can talk desperate fugitives into releasing their hostages and surrendering peacefully, then we know that the tongue can be an effective tool in resolving, or conversely, escalating a situation.

      Granted, circumstances may limit the time we can spend reasoning with a person, but we can at least try it before using force.
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #33
        Det. Columbo, anyone?

        Style. Yeah.

        11 years ago it was don't look and maybe the problem will go away.

        These days, after all those years of doing without gun, baton, OC, radio, partner, or often even a phone, I've learned how to talk with people, and how to talk to them when I need to.

        That said, I have a reputation in the whole city, not just my current employer, as a problem-solver and a peacemaker. I didn't get that by being the drill sergeant, by coming off as a pr**k.
        I did that by treating everyone with courtesy and respect. And by using the familiar tone, phrases, and demeamor.
        Actually, I'm really amazed how well that approach works.

        I also swear.

        Yeah, everybody thinks that SO aren't allowed to swear on the job, but TS! How many times have I said someone is full of s**t, or simply to f*** off, both done in the familiar tone, with a grin or a smile (works best with groups of teens).

        And if someone really gives me s**t? Humiliate them. I demean them, verbally, loudly and publically as I can.

        I'm also kinda' goofy, a la Columbo.

        I've sometimes made people think it's too much trouble to deal with me because I lay on the Columbo act so they just leave. I'm not too big a man to put away my pride. As long as they do what I want them to do (even if they think it was their idea), and with a minimum of work and paperwork, then I'm happy.

        I use these styles according to the subject, the environment, and how bad I want the SOB. Whatever works, man, whatever works.

        wjohnc
        Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
        "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

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        • #34
          Snickers, rocks, OTJ training

          Oops, forgot something...


          Yeah, 'Ask Tell Make', that's the way to go.

          And speaking of intel, and being nice: I once arrested a dude for theft (I think he did it to be sent back to jail - all his buddies are there), who, in the three hours we waited for the cops to come, did a lot of talking about who was who in the 'hood, criminal-wise. I took a lot of mental notes, and when he started to get tired I gave him a Snickers bar I had in my pocket.

          The guy's eyes actually welled up! He was hungry (very obvious) and in about 30 arrests (including one for breaking a guy's skull with a rock) had never been treated with the respect and kindness that I had shown him that day.

          He kept talking, and I had no issues of violence whatsoever from him.


          This is how it's done when you don't have formal training, equipment, or backup. All by myself, all the time. I've learned s** that people spending $40 000 don't learn. Shame.

          wjohnc
          Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
          "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

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          • #35
            Originally posted by wjohnc
            .....
            I also swear.....
            "Like a sailor." Another one who can't express his viewpoint w/o using excessive profanity. IGNORE BUTTON ACTIVATED!!
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #36
              I know this is coming in a little late, but in regards to the 21 foot rule... I saw someone mention you dont have enough time to step backwards from them.

              ...dont.

              I have found the sidestep to be much more effective. Now, they have to make a turn in their attack which throws off their original intent of charging straight at you.
              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
              "The Curve" 1998

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                I know this is coming in a little late, but in regards to the 21 foot rule... I saw someone mention you dont have enough time to step backwards from them.

                ...dont.

                I have found the sidestep to be much more effective. Now, they have to make a turn in their attack which throws off their original intent of charging straight at you.
                First: Please read all N.A. Corbier's posts. Second: On a plain sheet of white paper, use a small protractor and with a pencil, draw around it. You will see the straight line represents 180 degrees. The curved portion represents the 21-foot rule. You can move to your right or left and as long as you are within that 21-foot semi-circle, you are in danger. Get yourself out of that danger.
                Your objective is to do your duty and then go home. You cannot do that if you are in the hospital or on a slab in the morgue.
                Watch Corbier's recommended video. Notice the marks on the defender's arms or chest made by the magic marker.
                Remember always, the guy with the knife knows what he proposes to do. You don't.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill

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                • #38
                  I have to disagree with this one. When you are in the 21ft range and it is action time, your best manuver, IMO, is to get out of the way, it is much harder to try to get someone who is moving to the side than trying to head straight on.

                  I have read all the safety thing, and seen all sorts of tapes, they were required watching material when I got Taser Certified. See how long it takes you to run 21 ft from a stop, then see how long it takes you to run straight 21 ft then have to make an unexpected change in direction. This is very beneficial to the officer when every second counts.

                  I personally, when possible try to use a small barrier, or have one available to me in close proximity. A chair, my car hood, a desk , a standing ashtray, a stump, a parking meter, One of those little curb things in parking lots, anything that could cause a bit of a harder charge.


                  edit: Im not trying to say this makes the 21ft area okay to stand in... I feel it is just a more effective manuver when it is "go" time.
                  "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                  "The Curve" 1998

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    If your within 21 feet of the threat, you basically have two choices. Avoidance, or engagement.

                    I do have to note that turning 180 degrees and running will probably result in a knife in your back. Distance is good, but so is putting obstacles in the assailant's path. The trick is to gain time to either escape or engage with firearm or, in some cases, taser. Anything ranged that will stop the threat.

                    So, I'm going to have to say that a middle ground is perferable to Bill and Lawson's roads. Running away is good - if you can do it safely. Till you can, tactical movement is key. This tactical movement should be part of the plan you have formulated to get out alive.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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