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  • #16
    What's your "style?"

    One of many things we in this profession must be remembered is the 21-foot rule in regards to a person with a knife. Regardless of how fast a LEO/Security Person is, the reach for a sidearm or baton will never match the knife. So moving back is your only option at times. The rules are simple 3x6 or less than 21 you are a dead man/woman. N.A., nicely done!
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

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    • #17
      Something that pisses me off is that Surviving Edged Weapons is a LE restricted video. Every security officer, especially every ARMED security officer, should have to watch this video. I did, and it explained alot to me.

      Your baton? USELESS.
      Your firearm? USELESS.

      If you are within 21 feet, even an idiot can charge you before you draw either. Why? Because it takes 1.5 seconds to draw, sight picture, and engage with firearm. It takes .9 seconds (approx) to sprint 21 feet and embed a knife into your chest.

      I'm working on getting a rep who will sell me that video, and Surviving Edged Weapons II. So far, most of them are like, "Well, some of our customers feel that is a restricted item, such as <Insert Police Union Here>."

      Galls, Streichers, Chief, US Cav... Nobody will sell it unless its on sworn letterhead. You'd think I was trying to buy a 40mm grenade launcher.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Restricted to LEO Only

        When a PD orders a "Restricted to Law Enforcement Only" and that department chooses to show it to other than LEOs, and the word gets back to the vendor, that PD is stricken from the roster of Certified Receipents and it takes forever to get back on. The FBI has the same restrictions with their film/tape/CD library.
        Enjoy the day,
        Bill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          Something that pisses me off is that Surviving Edged Weapons is a LE restricted video. Every security officer, especially every ARMED security officer, should have to watch this video. I did, and it explained alot to me.

          Your baton? USELESS.
          Your firearm? USELESS.

          If you are within 21 feet, even an idiot can charge you before you draw either. Why? Because it takes 1.5 seconds to draw, sight picture, and engage with firearm. It takes .9 seconds (approx) to sprint 21 feet and embed a knife into your chest.

          I'm working on getting a rep who will sell me that video, and Surviving Edged Weapons II. So far, most of them are like, "Well, some of our customers feel that is a restricted item, such as <Insert Police Union Here>."

          Galls, Streichers, Chief, US Cav... Nobody will sell it unless its on sworn letterhead. You'd think I was trying to buy a 40mm grenade launcher.
          Actually, the Surviving Edged Weapons video is fairly outdated. It was a good Academy level introduction to the world of edged weapons, however modern research has caused us to change many attitudes about edged weapons and our defensive responses. The biggest being that 21 feet is the minimum distance. Actually, without the proper training and awareness, 21 feet is still too close. Kind of makes it hard to talk to someone from across the room doesn't it? Reading body language, threat awareness techniques and learning to move laterally are some of the more important survival techniques. Forget the video and find a credible instructor to train with.
          Jerry
          http://personalprotectionconcepts.info

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          • #20
            Good reminders, Bill. Thanks

            Re: Your article of interest
            Last edited by Mr. Security; 10-22-2005, 09:42 PM.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #21
              Mr Security you are welcome. We must strive to assist our fellows in this profession with advice, encouragement and if and when needed, help.

              Enjoy the day,
              Bill

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              • #22
                I am always nice until the other person is not nice to me. I am also firm in what I say. For example, a transient asleep in a loading dock doesn't want my apologies or to hear that I'm just doing my job. I just woke him up and told him to leave, so he doesn't care. ATM--Ask, Tell, Make.
                Liability is never above officer safety. Do what you must to make sure you go home safe.

                William-2, 10-6 for 105. Yep, I'm at Starbucks!

                I may be gay, but I'll eff you up!

                Personal Web Site

                Cheap, Quality Web Design! Put a great cop on the beat by helping with my tuition! :-D

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jakeslife
                  ATM--Ask, Tell, Make.
                  Right on Jake!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by histfan71
                    Right on Jake!
                    Ask, Tell, Make.

                    Always be in a position if you have to ask someone to do something that you can tell them, and if that fails, you can make them. If it requires calling the police to make them, don't bother telling them. You didn't make them, the police did, and it sets up a pattern - I can act up around the guard till the police arrive.

                    If you can't do it, ask, then call the police. They'll tell and make.

                    If you CAN make, then tell away.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                    • #25
                      I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.
                      Liability is never above officer safety. Do what you must to make sure you go home safe.

                      William-2, 10-6 for 105. Yep, I'm at Starbucks!

                      I may be gay, but I'll eff you up!

                      Personal Web Site

                      Cheap, Quality Web Design! Put a great cop on the beat by helping with my tuition! :-D

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jakeslife
                        I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.
                        In my line of work, as a government employee and now as a consultant, some of the best intelligence came from homeless folks sleeping where they should not have been.
                        A kind word and something to eat or drink seems to do the trick. The word spreads and you get more intell than you can handle. I am prepared for the ringer, but that is part of this business. You sift, keep what it good and trash the rest.
                        If you are about to be set up and the homeless person speaks up and scares the bad folks off, you are miles ahead in your mission.
                        Enjoy the day,
                        Bill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jakeslife
                          I thought that pretty much went without saying. If not, I'll laugh while someone pursues a vehicle on foot.
                          There are plenty of folks who believe "Ask Make Tell" goes like this.

                          Officer: "The hotel manager says you have to leave, your no longer wanted here. Please do not return. Do you understand?"
                          Idiot: "F- you, pig, I'm not leaving."

                          Officer: "Fine, I'm going to go call the police and they'll make you leave."
                          Idiot: "Too much for you, eh? Can't make me leave yourself, pu--- a-- rent-a-pig?"

                          Police Officer Arrives
                          Idiot walks off property, and goes, "I'm leaving now that the REAL police are here."
                          Police Officer agrees that only the real police can make them leave.

                          Value of security guard in this instance? Minimal. Deterrance function failed. Non-confrontational advisement failed. Lawful order failed. Police summoned. Police Presence caused compliance. Result: Manager should of called police in first place.

                          Ask, Make, Tell:
                          Ask - "Hello. Are you staying here? I'm going to have to ask you to leave, because this area is for guests only. Will you leave?"
                          Tell - "I said you have to leave. If you don't leave now, you'll be removed."
                          Make - *overcome passive or active resistance, remove to property line* "If you come back, your going to jail for trespass after warning."

                          Vlue of security guard in this instance: Great.
                          Deterrance Function: Failed
                          Non-Confrontational Advisement: Possibly failed, will not fail for those witnessing.
                          Lawful Order: Succeded, when backed up by physical force.
                          Police were not summoned.
                          Result: Officer has shown to BG that rules will be enforced, and his presence will not be tolerated. Witnesses shown that security is effective in establishment, and not just another cell phone toting 911-dialing rent-a-cop.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                            In my line of work, as a government employee and now as a consultant, some of the best intelligence came from homeless folks sleeping where they should not have been.
                            A kind word and something to eat or drink seems to do the trick. The word spreads and you get more intell than you can handle. I am prepared for the ringer, but that is part of this business. You sift, keep what it good and trash the rest.
                            If you are about to be set up and the homeless person speaks up and scares the bad folks off, you are miles ahead in your mission.
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill
                            I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on that. I have gotten great intel from homeless people in the past, all for the price of a kind word.

                            This also works well with prostitutes. The hookers in the neighborhood know all the local punks and thugs (and even some outside the neighborhood) and if your treat them with a little human kindness and decency they will share what they know.

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                            • #29
                              I am not in the business of gathering street intel though. My job is to clear them off property.
                              Liability is never above officer safety. Do what you must to make sure you go home safe.

                              William-2, 10-6 for 105. Yep, I'm at Starbucks!

                              I may be gay, but I'll eff you up!

                              Personal Web Site

                              Cheap, Quality Web Design! Put a great cop on the beat by helping with my tuition! :-D

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jakeslife
                                I am not in the business of gathering street intel though. My job is to clear them off property.
                                That is fine, do your job, but always be ready with a kind word, a cup of hot coffee or a Big Mac. As you move them on engage in an interview, which is a conversation with a purpose.
                                Armed with that intell, you might find out about a pending theft or attack that just might save your client money and you your life.
                                Enjoy the day,
                                Bill

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