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  • Combative subjects

    I found this forum a short time ago and have been very impressed with the professionalism of many of the members. I have also been very surprised at how widely varied the responsibilities of security officers are at different types of facilities. I guess I was guilty of assuming that everyone had the same types of duties and responsibilities as we do (basically unarmed private police).
    The great variety of different types of assignments leads me to ask, what type of setting do you work in and how often do you have to defend yourself against actual physical attacks as part of you job?
    Drew Neckar
    Hospital Security Supervisor
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much.
    --Oscar Wilde—

  • #2
    Patrol a large apartment community. Respond to calls for service of various sorts, (noise complaints, domestics, etc.)...

    As far as physical attacks go, they've been few and far between.. The vast majority take off running when they see us approach...
    Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
    Originally posted by ValleyOne
    BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
    Shoulda called in sick.
    Be safe!

    Comment


    • #3
      My duty is, in basic terms, to act as an LPO, but in uniform at a grocery chain. I often get low-key domestics, fair number of drunks, and a lot of teens / young adults high on oxycontin, crystal meth, and the like. None of these people have been violent with me. In fact, nobody has. At 6', 240 Lbs, confidence pouring out my ears, and excellent negotiation skills (so recognized by 2 employers ), I don't have a problem with violence.

      Thank the gods, too. With no physical training even offered around here (unless you pay $30 000 for a whole program, criminology for example) I might be in for a tougher time than many around the forum. How do you think I became such an excellent negotiator?

      wjohnc
      Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
      "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

      Comment


      • #4
        hotel

        i work a security officer for a hotel

        as far as physical deffence far and few...most of the time it is a noise complaint of kids in the halls or party in the next room.once and a while a drunk in the bar

        i found that the parents are worse than the kids when it comes to noise complaints and the partys in the rooms....lol

        when we get a complaint
        first time knock on the door asking to keep it down
        second time a letter from the hotel stating this is the second warning
        third time asked to leave the hotel if needed cops are called

        Comment


        • #5
          I work for Boeing at the Everett site which is home to the worlds largest building. Violent attacks on us are pretty rare. Probably due to the fact that we respond red lights and sirens and have several officers on at a time that can back us up. The fact that were armed helps too.

          Boeing having the worlds largest building undoubtedly brings a lot of tourists. We get alot of people trying to enter the plant to see it and also taking pictures which is also prohibited. Have had a few violent encounters but a good dose of pepper spray seems to do the trick. We also get a lot of violent criminal that run from local lawenforcement. They think that by running onto our property and hiding that pd will stop chasing them and their right. Pd will not enter our property, but they do call us and then we get to go find them . Nothing better than seeing the look on a suspects face when you drag them out kicking and screammin and hand them over to pd.

          Comment


          • #6
            Apartment community here ..... i have yet to have any combative folks, but i have had MANY run ins with the "community" gang, I have been on noise complaints, ive had to monitor pool areas, ive had to assist tow companies with removal of 13 cars in one night, i assist with lock outs, i assist with medical calls, i pass out fliers......


            so it is kinda varied.. so far i like apt community security, its a lot different from highrise/hotel security.. and totally different from mall security and parkinglot security... and nothing near that of hospital security.. or staduim security...
            When not at work or out watching a moive.. passed out at the keyboard.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey, another private police officer. I'd love to know if your employer actually uses the term, or if they call you a security person.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #8
                Hotels

                An hotel is a mini city. We face everything the city police, fire & ambulance people face. We act as first responders for all emergencies.

                One of the hotels is located in downtown Montreal. Most combative people are bums that walk in off of the street. We work alone, unarmed. When I was younger I would challenge anyone. I turned 50 in March, I'm smarter now. If the person becomes combative, I back off & call 9-1-1.
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I work in the only public hospital in my city. Our Security Department has a proactive philosophy, giving us a much more involved role.

                  We don't normally call the PD until or unless we're ready to turn someone over to them tio be cited for a violation or hauled off to jail.

                  Physical assaults/attempted assaults can occur with regularity here. I would estimate we have 5 -10 use of force reports weekly. These can be as minor as restraining an uncooperative/comabtive patient, preventing escape of a patient who is not free to leave (under state law for various reasons), to outright defending ourselves (or anyone else) from physical assault.

                  We get the occassional domestics, threats, disruptive behavior that in many cases can be handled without physical action on our part. Talk is good (especially when backed up by Taser).
                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks, for the input to everyone. The posts so far have confirmed my suspicions that security at a hospital is quite different than at many other types of facilities.
                    At our facility we average 5-10 use of force reports a week, on average two of these are arrestable batteries to our staff. As for the types of people who are combative, it varies from psych/detox. patients, assisting local police in drawing blood in DUI cases, people caught stealing or breaking into vehicles or committing other crimes, homeless people who resisting being removed from our property, or the local criminal elements who run into our building trying to get away from the police.
                    Someone mentioned having good luck with pepper spray, but in my experience approximately 30% of the time it has little to no effect, especially with people who are under the influence or psychotic (most of our combative subjects). Has anyone else noticed these problems?


                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Hey, another private police officer. I'd love to know if your employer actually uses the term, or if they call you a security person.
                    N.A. – Our official title is Protective Service Officer, recently changed from Security Officer. We are currently undergoing some restructuring and cutting away a lot of our non-security related functions to give us a more efficient and professional department.
                    I see from some of your other posts that you’re in the Kenosha/Racine area, lately we’ve had a good number of people (mostly undesirable) from that area move into the neighborhood around our facility. The best I can tell, from tattoos and graffiti, they are mostly GD’s. Do you have much experience in dealing with this particular gang?
                    Drew Neckar
                    Hospital Security Supervisor
                    ---------------------------------------------------

                    Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much.
                    --Oscar Wilde—

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HospitalOfc.
                      Thanks, for the input to everyone. The posts so far have confirmed my suspicions that security at a hospital is quite different than at many other types of facilities.
                      At our facility we average 5-10 use of force reports a week, on average two of these are arrestable batteries to our staff. As for the types of people who are combative, it varies from psych/detox. patients, assisting local police in drawing blood in DUI cases, people caught stealing or breaking into vehicles or committing other crimes, homeless people who resisting being removed from our property, or the local criminal elements who run into our building trying to get away from the police.
                      Does your agency allow for private arrest (some may call it detention), for breaches of the peace of felonies with probable cause?

                      [QUOTE=HospitalOfc.] Someone mentioned having good luck with pepper spray, but in my experience approximately 30% of the time it has little to no effect, especially with people who are under the influence or psychotic (most of our combative subjects). Has anyone else noticed these problems?[/qoute]
                      Some will tell you its what you're carrying. However, there are people out there that simply aren't affected that well by OC. Since we can't use tasers in this state, that means that you're going to have to go hand-to-hand or switch to baton.

                      An important thing is to carry an OC with a high SHU value. Even more important is spray and engage. Even women spraying to avoid a mugging combine the spraying with an action - escaping. Spray the suspect, then immediately move in for a takedown. Use it as a distraction, and even if it doesn't work to incapcitate, it will does something.

                      Originally posted by HospitalOfc.
                      N.A. – Our official title is Protective Service Officer, recently changed from Security Officer. We are currently undergoing some restructuring and cutting away a lot of our non-security related functions to give us a more efficient and professional department.
                      I see from some of your other posts that you’re in the Kenosha/Racine area, lately we’ve had a good number of people (mostly undesirable) from that area move into the neighborhood around our facility. The best I can tell, from tattoos and graffiti, they are mostly GD’s. Do you have much experience in dealing with this particular gang?
                      That's extremely useful. Healthcare is one of the areas where security needs to be doing security, not valet services or whatever else they have you doing.

                      As for our friends the GDs, they're entrenched. Most likely due to the "Chicagoland Connection," coming up on the Metra, etc. I haven't had to deal with them, but riding Kenosha's public transportation (since the schools use it to transport students, I don't suggest doing it when school lets out...) and living near the transit center in Downtown, they've been easy to spot. I also noticed BGD tags and knowledge in Schaumburg, so they're pretty much everywhere.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Does anyone who works somewhere other than a hospital have a site where they are required to use force on a regular basis? For those who do work in hospitals, how often do you have use of force incidents?

                        [QUOTE=N. A. Corbier]Does your agency allow for private arrest (some may call it detention), for breaches of the peace of felonies with probable cause?

                        We can and do detain for felonies or breaches of peace. We usually will detain on breach of peace for anyone that can be charged with Disorderly Conduct (I'm sure you know how loosely written Wi's definition of DC is ). We also use the statute making battery to or interference with an emergency medical worker a felony (WI 940.20(7), 941.37), we have so many licensed EMTs on staff that if someone is causing a problem they can jump in and thereby pump charges up to a felony level. Our local PD is very helpful and backs us one hundred percent, charging with whatever is needed to make our detention legal (of course the DA often lowers the charges, but as long as they were charged then it's a legal detention). We also have a good number of areas (gift shops, pharmacies, food services, etc.) that are classified as retail businesses so we can detain under shoplifting laws.
                        Drew Neckar
                        Hospital Security Supervisor
                        ---------------------------------------------------

                        Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much.
                        --Oscar Wilde—

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In my hotel we are expected to hold someone who does a criminal act for the police. Practically speaking since we work alone, unarmed, I try to encourage my staff to observe the suspect & call 9-1-1. In my younger days I'd jump in more than I do now that I'd smarter, older & less macho
                          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've had a few, but a good dose of o.c. keeps 99% of them in line. I've never had to shoot anybody yet. Fortunately the current job consists mostly of driving around to empty properties and getting out on a few to check doors, interrupted by a few alarm calls. The apartment complex patrol company was different though. Subjects loved to give verbal resistance all the time. A few were physically combative, but 90% of them ended up going to jail.
                            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HospitalOfc.
                              Does anyone who works somewhere other than a hospital have a site where they are required to use force on a regular basis? For those who do work in hospitals, how often do you have use of force incidents?

                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              Does your agency allow for private arrest (some may call it detention), for breaches of the peace of felonies with probable cause?
                              We can and do detain for felonies or breaches of peace. We usually will detain on breach of peace for anyone that can be charged with Disorderly Conduct (I'm sure you know how loosely written Wi's definition of DC is ). We also use the statute making battery to or interference with an emergency medical worker a felony (WI 940.20(7), 941.37), we have so many licensed EMTs on staff that if someone is causing a problem they can jump in and thereby pump charges up to a felony level. Our local PD is very helpful and backs us one hundred percent, charging with whatever is needed to make our detention legal (of course the DA often lowers the charges, but as long as they were charged then it's a legal detention). We also have a good number of areas (gift shops, pharmacies, food services, etc.) that are classified as retail businesses so we can detain under shoplifting laws.
                              I am loving Wisconsin's laws more and more. Especially the civil/criminal immunity for reasonable force used in good faith that injures a third party while defending one's self, one's property, or the person or property of another. OC the bad guy and four other folks get it too? Too bad for them, its legal.

                              As for the "EMS worker," has your employer considered having you all certified as "EMS First Responders" under WI law? Their law requiring First Responder certification for any person who provides first aid or emergency medical services for hire may qualify someone as an "EMS worker."

                              This is something I'm looking into, most definately, because I see a lot of companies offering EMTs, Paramedics, and First Responders for site and festival services. That, and to put AEDs in vehicles or on posts, ARC advised me that you need the operator to be "First Responder" Certified with the AED certification.
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                              Comment

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