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  • #46
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Someone at Corporate should look at the GM GEM platform, which are electric cars which actually seem to work well. I dislike those mini trucks, drove one at a USCG base. Any Coasties here know exactly what I mean, they were called carts.

    Most "weapons free" policies are just there to minimize liability, lower insurance rates, and save cost by not having to train you on the weapons authorized to carried.
    Electric cars wouldnt do well for us. We need gas powered patrol vehicles but the Tiger sucks.
    "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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    • #47
      Originally posted by knotquiteawake
      i'm pretty sure it was the Chief's decision for the 9mm. The reasoning i was lead to understand is that our clips would be interchangeable with LA County's (their standard issue is the beretta 9mm, but most carry their own personal weapon).
      So i guess he wanted it so we would both have the same clips... you know... like if the Sheriff and I get into a prolonged gun fight against a terrorist group. I could be all like "I'm OUT!!!" and the Sheriff would throw me another clip and be like "thats my last one, make it count." or something like that.... (i'm being sarcastic...)

      I recommend learning more about your weapon before carrying. Your beretta does not use a clip. Here is an easy explanation.

      http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/clip.html

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Protective_Services
        I recommend learning more about your weapon before carrying. Your beretta does not use a clip. Here is an easy explanation.

        http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/clip.html
        That is a pet peeve of mine too. Same could be said of bullets. A "bullet" is just one part of the cartridge. Not to mention when everyone refers to every collapsible baton as an "ASP". An "ASP" is a brand, and not a generic name for all collapsible batons.
        "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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        • #49
          Armed or not

          I think Mr. Security makes a very good point. There are very obvious moral
          issues to be considered at this time for you. In addition, there are legal and
          civil issues to consider, unlike a licensed peace officer you have no limited
          immunity. However, on this last point, totality of circumstances come greatly
          into play. Also depending on totality of circumstances, a properly trained
          security guard may get a little more wiggle room than an armed citizen.

          No lawyer, cop or judge would ever admit that. Having said that, there are
          times and accounts where there is no substitute for a gun. On the near north
          side of my city and other areas, the gang bangers, and hip-hop thugs, and ex
          cons respect nothing else. I have worked as an armored car guard for years
          and now in armed security. I gotten use to the gun and don't think about
          it much anymore. BTW, if you go armed, see if you can carry a .40 instead of
          a 9mm. I enjoy that tactical side of security but, thats me.

          Again it comes down to your decision and who you are. There are many rewarding and low risk posts, accounts, and technical aspects of the security
          business that require no gun.

          Best of luck whatever you decide.

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          • #50
            From what I've been told after the Peace Officer trainer we will be issues .45 glocks.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by The Lord of the Keys View Post
              From what I've been told after the Peace Officer trainer we will be issues .45 glocks.
              For hospital security? I'd recommend some rethinking on that one.
              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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              • #52
                Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                For hospital security? I'd recommend some rethinking on that one.
                Firearms in a hospital setting is like mixing a lighted match with kerosene.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill

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                • #53
                  For those who think unarmed security is safer as far as liability, Think of the emotional, ethical and civil liability when an unarmed guard is killed or greiviouly injured while performing duties. In this area, most guards who are unarmed have most all agreed to have spouses and/or other family members to agressively and unrelentingly pursue civil suits against the company, individual managers, and the post owners as well. If a company is more worried about liability than their employees, then drastic action is needed to change it. Not to mention criminal negligence as well. Such a case was successful here in Birmingham a number of years ago. It forced the closing of the security company, the buisiness that was the post, and the security company owner served time for criminal negligence by ignoring the safety of his employees.
                  Last edited by medic15al; 06-02-2007, 01:50 PM.

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                  • #54
                    I work in a medical building, even has a third floor walkway to the hospital across the street. I can't even carry a flashlight let alone cw or a baton. I wonder if the doctors and nurses know if something happens all I can do is yell at the perp and call the police.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                      For hospital security? I'd recommend some rethinking on that one.

                      Is your objection to Glocks, .45 caliber, or firearms in general for this type of post?
                      "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
                        Is your objection to Glocks, .45 caliber, or firearms in general for this type of post?
                        No, there are definitely some hospital venues (inner city, especially) where at least some officers should probably be armed and I have no objection to Glocks.

                        I think that .45 caliber, however, is probably inappropriate for any hospital venue. Without getting into all the usual hoo-ha about "stopping power", etc., I'd be very uncomfortable issuing anything more than 9-mm, and I'd be very careful about the round I selected for officers to carry as well, choosing one that wasn't too "hot". The risk associated with missed shots is simply too great to ignore in a setting like a hospital and, IMHO, outweighs some other considerations that might be more relevant for other venues and for street cops.

                        In short, I'd give up some "stopping power" for less chance of missed shots that go through walls, etc. and even for some slightly increased chance that an individual struck unintentionally would survive their injury (despite the fact that this would also apply to a perp, obviously). After all, the 9-mm is hardly a popgun and is still carried by police forces around the world, so it's not like you'd be using an ineffective weapon.

                        Please note, dear reader, that this is simply my opinion and the approach that I would take. There are zillions of studies on topics such as this, all of them "proving" something different, so you might legitimately see this question very differently.
                        Last edited by SecTrainer; 06-04-2007, 01:55 PM.
                        "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                        "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                        "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                        "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                        • #57
                          The .45 ACP round is less likely to overpenetrate or riccochet than a 9mm round. Slower and larger bullet vs. a small faster bullet.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by medic15al View Post
                            The .45 ACP round is less likely to overpenetrate or riccochet than a 9mm round. Slower and larger bullet vs. a small faster bullet.
                            Much the same way we're taught a .22 will easily penetrate your vest over a.40 any day. A friend's coworker was recently shot through his vest with a .25 and died at the scene.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by medic15al View Post
                              The .45 ACP round is less likely to overpenetrate or riccochet than a 9mm round. Slower and larger bullet vs. a small faster bullet.
                              The problem is, it's impossible to support broad statements like this, or about small rounds penetrating vests, etc. For one thing, you have to specify what kinds of walls you're talking about, and you have to be very specific about which loads you're talking about. There are building materials that are velocity-susceptible and others that require momentum to penetrate. Momentum is a rough expression of terminal kinetic energy. The .45 typically travels at about 75% of the speed of the 9-mm, but it also has nearly twice the mass.

                              I certainly was not suggesting that the 9-mm cannot penetrate walls. But, I can put the point to you in this way: If you had to knock a hole in a wall with a single blow, would you reach for your carpenter's hammer...or your sledge hammer? Which one is slower? Which one is heavier? I'm sure you answered "sledge hammer" to all three questions. If you said "carpenter's hammer", I don't want you on my remodeling crew because we'll never get anything done!

                              Certainly, either round can punch a hole in sheetrock walls, but that isn't the end of the issue. Buildings aren't just made of sheetrock. I can tell you from personal tests that the .45 penetrated panels of medium-to-heavy gauge sheet metal (about twice the thickness of car door panels) and 1" plywood at 50 yards which the 9-mm did not penetrate.

                              However, since it is certainly true that 9-mm will penetrate some types of walls, I'm not sure I wouldn't even go one step further in a hospital setting and require frangibles like Glasers despite their extra expense (using standard target loads, of course, for training and range practice). Hopefully, officers wouldn't find themselves firing caseloads of the frangibles on the job, so the cost differential would be limited. I'd take a little extra expense compared to the costs of unintended injuries.

                              One other point: If I ever ended up in court, I'd prefer to defend the choice of using a low-heat 9-mm (and even more so, a frangible) round over a .45 in a hospital any day of the week.
                              Last edited by SecTrainer; 06-06-2007, 04:03 AM.
                              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Which one is more likely to penetrate and exit a human being? In a crowded emergency room are you going to be more concerned with walls or people?

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