Weapons on the Job?

[knotquiteawake]

For a long time the only authorized weapons for Campus Security here was your ASP and your Pepper Foam.

However after two armed car jackings, over the course of about a month and a half, the Univeristy President gave the green light to Arm the Officers.

So now in the next three to four months or so we will be trained to use a gun and tazer.
Apparently we will be required to carry all of the following while on duty:
ASP
Pepper spray
Tazer
9mm Beretta
PLUS all the regular stuff (maglight, radio, cuffs, spare clips, ect..)

How many of you security guards are armed? How did it feel if you were around for a switch from unarmed to armed (or switching from a unarmed job to an armed job). Also, the Tazer, useful or never used?
thanks

[Lawson]

Well, being 20, I have not yet worked as an Armed Guard, however; I have carried the M26 Taser on my hip. It was effective enough for me. A lot of people thought I was carrying around a Glock so it had that "armed look". I only deployed it from my holster once and held it down to my side, that did the job for that instance, I never deployed it onto someone. I think it is an effective tool, especially the M26 or M18 for unarmed officers. Now, obviously it has its downfalls as you now look armed, and I believe, somewhere, it is shown as a statistic that armed officers are more likely to be shot or shot at that unarmed officers. Now, carrying a tool that only has a temporary incapacitating blow that is only effective for 21ft, and the carrier typically only carries 1-3 rounds vs. a weapon that can potentially shoot through cars, has and effective kill range of 21+ YARDS and the ability to kill, and the carrier can carry anwhere from 1-100+ rounds... You are definately in a losing battle.

IMO, as an Unarmed officer, one who went from carrying a blank belt to handcuffs, OC, Taser, gloves, a mini mag, a full maglite, and a radio/scanner... you look a lot more like you are capable of putting the hurt on someone, and typically are more effective in security.

[Taser]

I have found the Taser to be extremely useful. I have deployed it, and yes, it drops them like flies. Other instances, they see that red dot on their chest and it really gets them to stop doing whatever it was they were doing.

[Guest]

I'm glad to hear that Biola is going armed. I have always been of the opinion that if a college campus has live-in students, i.e. dorms, then the campus security or police should be armed.

I worked for a small college police department in Long Beach and we had about 400 students who lived in our dorms, but we were unarmed, even though we were sworn police.

I understand that you used to work closely with Azusa Pacific University Campus Safety. Is that still the case?

[Mr. Security]

....
How many of you security guards are armed? How did it feel if you were around for a switch from unarmed to armed (or switching from a unarmed job to an armed job). Also, the Tazer, useful or never used?
thanks

Everyone here knows that I prefer unarmed security. It is also a matter of record on this forum that armed security is necessary at times. I understand that. My advice to you is to take some time and meditate on how well you would deal with the emotional and mental trauma that often accompanies the taking of another person's life. Some have no problem with it because they view it as self-defense or they actually had to use deadly force in the past. Others, including some police officers, have never been able to live with the knowledge that they were put in a position that required them to use lethal force.

It's a serious matter and the time to decide is before, not after you use deadly force.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Here at Boeing we are armed and used to carry the Taser X26 (since got rid of it). In the year and a half we had the Taser it was never deployed once. I have been shocked with it and it is effective. We have deployed pepper spray several times. In the entire history of the company, I have only heard of one shooting. My opinion on armed security is it is necessary and has its bennefits. In a college campus environment, I am a little hesitant to go along with armed security. From what you say it sounds like your campus is in the wrong neck of the woods and that firearms may be warrented. I would recommend getting as much training as possible in the use of your firearm and the Use of Force Continum. God forbid you ever shoot anyone, you want to prove that you had the training and that you can justify without a doubt the shooting. If it were me, I would put the officers through a psychological test first to make sure they were fit to go armed.

[knotquiteawake]

Ok to answer the couple questions and make a couple comments.


First, we are not sworn peace officers but we have a Memorandum of Understanding with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department as per Penal Code Section 830.7 giving us the powers of arrest of a peace officer as specified in section 836. So we are expected to make arrests, clear buildings, respond to suspicious persons calls ect...

Our Chief has a good relationship with APU Security and the Chiefs of several other Universities but our officers don't do much together except at Basketball games where they coordinate the crowd/riot control.

We are located in La Mirada CA, which is supposed to be a very safe city, however it is very close to Norwalk, Downey, Compton, Hawaiian Gardens, all of which are not very safe. So sometimes we get some bleed over crimes.
In general though the crime is not that bad, the recent car jackings woke the university leaders up and they decided to be proactive and not wait for someone to get hurt.

Our relationship with LA County Sheriff is good but their response times are poor often enough to feel a little worried every time we call them out. So in the interest of officer safety the admin decided to arm us. We run into situations where it is not likely but still possible we will have to draw our weapon. Like clearing buildings that the alarm has gone off but there isn't enough evidence to think it was forced (if it looks forced we're calling the Sheriff), or confronting someone who was seen looking into car windows and pulling handles. While I don't think the gun arming is totally necessary, the admin has good enough reasons to justify it, and I get paid significantly more (but still not enough).

The comment about psychological testing is so true, and I hope they do, because there are certain guys I work with that I don't want within 10 feet of a gun. But personal feelings aside, from my meetings with our leaders it sounds like there is going to be a very strong emphasis on proper training. We will be working either with Rio Hondo Police Academy or the Orange County Sheriff's Academy to do our training.

Oh, and as a side note, our Chief is getting us the bright yellow Tazers, why?, well his only reasoning was that he didn't want us to confuse them with our real guns while on duty...

[Mr. Security]

.....
Oh, and as a side note, our Chief is getting us the bright yellow Tazers, why?, well his only reasoning was that he didn't want us to confuse them with our real guns while on duty...

So, he has that much confidence in your department.

[N. A. Corbier]

So, he has that much confidence in your department.

Don't laugh. If your carrying the M18, its happened before. In California. A suspect who was kicking out a cruiser window was fatally shot with a Glock 17 by a city police officer. She stated, "I'll calm him down," opened the door a crack, drew her Glock, and put a round in his chest.

She then totally broke down and started screaming at the deputies she had responded to assist and transport for to save the suspect. He was pronounced dead.

[Mr. Security]

Don't laugh. If your carrying the M18, its happened before. In California. A suspect who was kicking out a cruiser window was fatally shot with a Glock 17 by a city police officer. She stated, "I'll calm him down," opened the door a crack, drew her Glock, and put a round in his chest.

She then totally broke down and started screaming at the deputies she had responded to assist and transport for to save the suspect. He was pronounced dead.

Good grief! Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

[N. A. Corbier]

Good grief! Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

Its one of the reasons the X26 is smaller, and worn cross-draw.

[Mr. Security]

Its one of the reasons the X26 is smaller, and worn cross-draw.

That's the type that I'm familiar with.

[Taser]

Don't laugh. If your carrying the M18, its happened before. In California. A suspect who was kicking out a cruiser window was fatally shot with a Glock 17 by a city police officer. She stated, "I'll calm him down," opened the door a crack, drew her Glock, and put a round in his chest.

She then totally broke down and started screaming at the deputies she had responded to assist and transport for to save the suspect. He was pronounced dead.

Yeah, personally I can't even wrap my head around that. I can never imagine mistaking my M series Taser for a Glock. First of all, the Taser feels completely different in your hand. Second of all, you have to flip a switch to activate the Taser...on a Glock you don't flip anything. Third, when you flip the switch there is a very obvious laser.

But, if she were really carrying the M18, which is highly unusual for law enforcement, it would explain why there was no laser. The M18 and the M18L are the civiliar versions; the M18 has no laser. The M26 is the one commonly carried by law enforcement and it does have a laser.

However, keeping all this in mind, I did recently reconfigure my belt setup for where I carry the Taser. I was carrying it in a right hand thigh holster underneath my Glock. I switched it to a left hand thigh holster so now it's impossible for me to mix them up.

But I still stand by my original statement that I can't imagine mixing the two up. It's like not noticing the difference between your baton and your gun. I mean really, if this woman had that much trouble discerning between objects by feel, she had no business being a police officer. Don't get me wrong, I feel horrible for her, but there's not really any excuse for it. The Taser and the Glock are NOT similar in feel or operation. The untrained eye could certainly be fooled when glancing at someone's belt, but the operator should definitely be able to tell the difference.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yeah, personally I can't even wrap my head around that. I can never imagine mistaking my M series Taser for a Glock. First of all, the Taser feels completely different in your hand. Second of all, you have to flip a switch to activate the Taser...on a Glock you don't flip anything. Third, when you flip the switch there is a very obvious laser.

But, if she were really carrying the M18, which is highly unusual for law enforcement, it would explain why there was no laser. The M18 and the M18L are the civiliar versions; the M18 has no laser. The M26 is the one commonly carried by law enforcement and it does have a laser.

However, keeping all this in mind, I did recently reconfigure my belt setup for where I carry the Taser. I was carrying it in a right hand thigh holster underneath my Glock. I switched it to a left hand thigh holster so now it's impossible for me to mix them up.

But I still stand by my original statement that I can't imagine mixing the two up. It's like not noticing the difference between your baton and your gun. I mean really, if this woman had that much trouble discerning between objects by feel, she had no business being a police officer. Don't get me wrong, I feel horrible for her, but there's not really any excuse for it. The Taser and the Glock are NOT similar in feel or operation. The untrained eye could certainly be fooled when glancing at someone's belt, but the operator should definitely be able to tell the difference.

I believe she was carrying an M26. With the exception of the dataport, aren't the M18 and M26 identical? Only difference being that the M26 is shipped and loaded with the 25 foot cartridges, and the M18 is sold with the 15 foot "civilian" cartridge?

Never really played with the M18/M26, when we were talking with Taser, the X26 had just came out, and they were trying to sell us the X26. As previously noted, Taser did a 180 on non-sworn sales of the X26.

[Taser]

I believe she was carrying an M26. With the exception of the dataport, aren't the M18 and M26 identical? Only difference being that the M26 is shipped and loaded with the 25 foot cartridges, and the M18 is sold with the 15 foot "civilian" cartridge?

Never really played with the M18/M26, when we were talking with Taser, the X26 had just came out, and they were trying to sell us the X26. As previously noted, Taser did a 180 on non-sworn sales of the X26.

In the M Series, Taser makes an M18, M18L, and M26. They are all exactly the same except for a few differences. The M18 does not have a laser sight, the M18L and M26 do. The M18's deliver 18 pulses of electricity per second, while the M26 delivers 26 pulses per second. They are all 50,000 volts, but the M18's ampage or something is lower, making them less dangerous. And as you mentioned, the 15 ft. vs 25 ft. cartridges.

As for data ports, I can't speak for the M18, by my M18L does indeed have one. Whether or not it works, I have no idea. But there is definitely a port on the rear of the unit that allows you to plug something in, about the size of an ethernet cord jack.

But they do all perform exactly the same. You flip the safety off and press the trigger. I just can't imagine mistaking one for a Glock, both in weight, feel, sight, trigger, the fact that it HAS a safety, everything.