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  • Guard Tour Systems

    Hello all first time poster from Down Under.

    Just interested to know what type/brand of guard tour system you may be using?

    Also if you have had any good/bad experiences with any particular brand.

    I have used:

    The good,

    GCS Escorte
    Deister Duostar
    Guard 1 The Pipe (Best)

    The Bad,

    Morse Watchmans The Boss


    Regards,

    Brian

  • #2
    I've never heard of a Guard Tour System or any of the brands you mentioned.
    Hospital Security Officer

    Comment


    • #3
      I know what they are. *shudder*

      Up here, we generally use DETEX. Either the Digital Guard Reporting System, or the old watch clocks.

      For those of you wondering, the term "watch clock" should of set you off by now.

      Most American security companies have done away with guard accountability systems such as digital watch clocks because the guard is too concerned with hitting the key stations than observing and reporting.

      The reporting system also provides a fixed tour, which is used to anticipate security's arrival in an area. It creates a set schedule that must be adhered to, ie: Guard must hit 30 key stations in 1 hour. Guard will hit Key Station #16 at 26 past the hour, so we have 1 hour of no Guard in the area.

      I truly dislike guard accountability systems based off the key system or even the new ProxID systems for the following reasons: Sets a schedule; guards are given a unrealistic performance metric - hit the keys - which reduces observation effectiveness; guards will purposefully not interact with situations as they fear unsatisfactory performance rating for not hitting the keys "on time;" guards are capable of skewing the system; guards will find a way to disable the key clock; and finally, no real performance metric is established through the use of guard tour systems.

      To measure a guard's performance, there are other metrics available. Up here, clients who do not "trust" the guard will require the use of tour systems, or their insurance company wants proof of patrolling.

      This is usually used to "Blame the Guard," as the guard was supposed to be in Area C at XX:24 and Area D at XX:26. At XX:28, a fire started, which the "guard should of detected." Can you see where the transference of liability is?

      You won't find many companies with guard tour systems, they're nothing but expense, especially with the guards actively trying to break them.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        I know what they are. *shudder*

        Up here, we generally use DETEX. Either the Digital Guard Reporting System, or the old watch clocks.

        For those of you wondering, the term "watch clock" should of set you off by now.

        Most American security companies have done away with guard accountability systems such as digital watch clocks because the guard is too concerned with hitting the key stations than observing and reporting.

        The reporting system also provides a fixed tour, which is used to anticipate security's arrival in an area. It creates a set schedule that must be adhered to, ie: Guard must hit 30 key stations in 1 hour. Guard will hit Key Station #16 at 26 past the hour, so we have 1 hour of no Guard in the area.

        I truly dislike guard accountability systems based off the key system or even the new ProxID systems for the following reasons: Sets a schedule; guards are given a unrealistic performance metric - hit the keys - which reduces observation effectiveness; guards will purposefully not interact with situations as they fear unsatisfactory performance rating for not hitting the keys "on time;" guards are capable of skewing the system; guards will find a way to disable the key clock; and finally, no real performance metric is established through the use of guard tour systems.

        To measure a guard's performance, there are other metrics available. Up here, clients who do not "trust" the guard will require the use of tour systems, or their insurance company wants proof of patrolling.

        This is usually used to "Blame the Guard," as the guard was supposed to be in Area C at XX:24 and Area D at XX:26. At XX:28, a fire started, which the "guard should of detected." Can you see where the transference of liability is?

        You won't find many companies with guard tour systems, they're nothing but expense, especially with the guards actively trying to break them.
        N.A., I posted an incident wherein I made all the clock positions, but not in the order as prescribed by following my supervisor. I learned from experience and from the sheriff's academy to always vary the route never establish a set routine.
        Two weeks later I was transferred "for my health" to another Pinkerton site.
        One police patrol with the township, visit a certain part known for high crime and within ten minutes double back. This kept the miscreants off guard. The job is and should always be to avoid entropy.
        Thanks N.A.
        Enjoy the day,
        Bill

        Comment


        • #5
          My site uses "guided tours" and I hate them. I'm pretty good at hitting them, but its a redundant system because we have to badge in at every door in the facility (magnetic card reader doors). Its just one more thing a guard has to worry about. Unfortunetly, at my site a few of the guards are to immature to do thier job correctly so we all suffer and have to hit our TOCO chips. I've tended to do my tours backwards, inside out and upsideways lately because when I do that I get to check out areas that other guards don't. It kinda bite me in the rear though because our client contact reviewed my door reports and she thought that I was skipping doors (I wasn't, they were just not in order and she was too lazy to go through and figure it out). Well, she requested that I be dissapproved for my 90 day raise, but too bad cause my boss (who just left the site) and his boss gave me the 25 cents.... I rock.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ff000525
            My site uses "guided tours" and I hate them. I'm pretty good at hitting them, but its a redundant system because we have to badge in at every door in the facility (magnetic card reader doors). Its just one more thing a guard has to worry about. Unfortunetly, at my site a few of the guards are to immature to do thier job correctly so we all suffer and have to hit our TOCO chips. I've tended to do my tours backwards, inside out and upsideways lately because when I do that I get to check out areas that other guards don't. It kinda bite me in the rear though because our client contact reviewed my door reports and she thought that I was skipping doors (I wasn't, they were just not in order and she was too lazy to go through and figure it out). Well, she requested that I be dissapproved for my 90 day raise, but too bad cause my boss (who just left the site) and his boss gave me the 25 cents.... I rock.
            See what I mean? Deviation = undesirable performance = stupidity.

            This, folks, is why I hate guard clock systems. I bet I could use ff000525's co-workers as a timekeeping device by their key rounds.
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
              See what I mean? Deviation = undesirable performance = stupidity.

              This, folks, is why I hate guard clock systems. I bet I could use ff000525's co-workers as a timekeeping device by their key rounds.
              Unfortunetly, the laziness of a few individuals contributed to the "guided tour" system were I work. The tours are already psuedo guided because almost every door in the building has a card reader on it that sends the name, picture and time a person went into a door directly to our security control center. It seems people were just hitting doors and not even looking in the room, well now they're hitting doors and hitting tour buttons, they're still lazy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ff000525
                My site uses "guided tours" and I hate them. I'm pretty good at hitting them, but its a redundant system because we have to badge in at every door in the facility (magnetic card reader doors). Its just one more thing a guard has to worry about. Unfortunetly, at my site a few of the guards are to immature to do thier job correctly so we all suffer and have to hit our TOCO chips. I've tended to do my tours backwards, inside out and upsideways lately because when I do that I get to check out areas that other guards don't. It kinda bite me in the rear though because our client contact reviewed my door reports and she thought that I was skipping doors (I wasn't, they were just not in order and she was too lazy to go through and figure it out). Well, she requested that I be dissapproved for my 90 day raise, but too bad cause my boss (who just left the site) and his boss gave me the 25 cents.... I rock.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't understand why they have to be hit at certain times. As long as they're being hit X amount of times as per the post orders what difference does it make what time? Obviously if some one was just doing all of the patrols consecutively, just to get them out of the way, the clock would still show that and it would be addressed. We used to have them where I work, long before I was there, now we just turn in our log sheets and call it a day.

                  The guards at the SUNY College I go to still have the watch clocks, they look like large canteens.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LavianoTS386
                    The guards at the SUNY College I go to still have the watch clocks, they look like large canteens.
                    Oh, the dreaded Detex clocks. I used to use them back in the 70s. Boy are they a pain!
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LavianoTS386
                      I don't understand why they have to be hit at certain times. As long as they're being hit X amount of times as per the post orders what difference does it make what time? Obviously if some one was just doing all of the patrols consecutively, just to get them out of the way, the clock would still show that and it would be addressed. We used to have them where I work, long before I was there, now we just turn in our log sheets and call it a day.

                      The guards at the SUNY College I go to still have the watch clocks, they look like large canteens.
                      They're hit at certain pre-determined times because it shows that your not "slacking off," or your not doing things in areas your not supposed to be in. Basically, from your detex key entries, I should be able to determine exactly where you every minute of your tour. If you are 3 minutes late for Key 6, then you did something between Key 5 and Key 6 that is "unusual," and is a possible security breach.

                      Going to the bathroom, for example, is a deviation from the patrol route and would show up.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Patrolmen use something similar with HHT's (PDA's, whatever you my wish to call them). Fortunately, we have some leeway with the use of ours, in regards to the clients we hit, they are in no set order, but we still have to scan onto the site and then scan off, just logging the fact we have actually done the patrol.

                        The only problem I find is the majority of clients are more concerned with 'set' routine patrols which go to show...well, something is being done, although not in a manner I would suggest.

                        We have one client that requires a patrol 5 times per night and 6 times on weekends. We must attend between the hours of (example) 23:50 and 00:10 for our patrol. The next patrol must be provided precisely two hours later. I've explained to our salesperson this will only allow someone who is looking at hitting the place the ability to gauge when we are present and when we are not. All someone has to do is watch for the marked vehicle to approach the building, mark down the time and wait for the vehicle to leave. They have approximately one and a half hours until the next patrol is performed to do what they want to do.

                        I've explained random patrols, such as doubling back within ten minutes to ascertain if someone was waiting on our departure would make more sense. The voice of reason, of course, is drowned out in favor of the fact the company is making the client happy and the client pays the fee.

                        *sigh* Obviously, I take my job to seriously.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OzPatrol
                          Patrolmen use something similar with HHT's (PDA's, whatever you my wish to call them). Fortunately, we have some leeway with the use of ours, in regards to the clients we hit, they are in no set order, but we still have to scan onto the site and then scan off, just logging the fact we have actually done the patrol.

                          The only problem I find is the majority of clients are more concerned with 'set' routine patrols which go to show...well, something is being done, although not in a manner I would suggest.

                          We have one client that requires a patrol 5 times per night and 6 times on weekends. We must attend between the hours of (example) 23:50 and 00:10 for our patrol. The next patrol must be provided precisely two hours later. I've explained to our salesperson this will only allow someone who is looking at hitting the place the ability to gauge when we are present and when we are not. All someone has to do is watch for the marked vehicle to approach the building, mark down the time and wait for the vehicle to leave. They have approximately one and a half hours until the next patrol is performed to do what they want to do.

                          I've explained random patrols, such as doubling back within ten minutes to ascertain if someone was waiting on our departure would make more sense. The voice of reason, of course, is drowned out in favor of the fact the company is making the client happy and the client pays the fee.

                          *sigh* Obviously, I take my job to seriously.
                          The company and the client should sit down together and the company lets it be known their security forces are not to be used as sitting ducks.
                          Enjoy the day,
                          Bill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've used Guard1 and at first I hit all the buttons religously, but after a few months I just started hitting the buttons enough to prove that I wasn't asleep on the job. My site supervisor never complained about it often. He did complain about it once though; there was just one night when the buttons at one site got so wet and it was raining so hard that I couldn't dry them off and beep the pipe on them in time before they got soaked again.

                            edit:

                            I have heard of guards removing the buttons and just sitting somewhere and then hitting them while sitting somewhere playing video games and watching television then putting them back on at the end of their shift.
                            Last edited by Canuck; 04-08-2006, 06:47 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                              The company and the client should sit down together and the company lets it be known their security forces are not to be used as sitting ducks.
                              Mr. Warnock, as beautiful as the above statement is, and the fact patrolmen would go to the ends of the earth for a company willing to do that, I, unfortunately, do not work for one of those companies.

                              I have a patrols team leader who has never done patrols, a operations manager who was a used car salesman, a human resources person who use to be a bus driver, and a general manager who use to be a LEO, several years ago.

                              Now, one would think that an ex-LEO would know something about the issues one might face while out on the road at night. We, the patrolmen, are normally first to respond to alarms (which means we are first onsite to break and enters, fires, etc and so on). Yet, the general manager seems to have NO IDEA whats going on. In fact, he knows very little about the entire operation, except he believes he needs to cut our pay. Literally, he walked in to us and stated flat out he wanted to drop our pays, first, almost $400 a fortnight (every two weeks) and then, after we told him exactly what we thought of that, he back up and 'reinvented the wheel' to the tune of a $144 reduction per fortnight.

                              Problem is, we have accepted he needs to reduce overhead, and win back contracts with clients, but how much of an expense to us should we take, considering the total lack of concern for his patrol officers in several areas.

                              Hmm....I could go on for quite some time, but this is not the thread to air such problems.

                              Back on topic (of the thread), I have found the use of these barcode scans somewhat ridiculous, and to be quite easy to lose, should one decide to take the trouble to make them disappear. I have been told that one industrious fellow got a barcode machine, copied all the barcodes for his patrol run, placed them on a board in his patrol vehicle, and sat there all night, scanning when he knew he would be on that site.

                              Same thing can be done with the Guard1 system or so it would appear.

                              Unfortunately, I find most people tend to distrust their security and hence the supposed need for these systems.

                              An example:

                              The security detail at the US Embassy here in Canberra (why the hell would the US Embassy need a contract security force? For the love of God, they have MARINES!) where all put into a guard house and LOCKED inside when President Bush visited the capital of Australia last year or the year before. They were not let out until AFTER he had arrived and entered the facility. Same process when he left.

                              I did find that rather amusing in its own unique way.

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