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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    And you couldn't just give the guard a warning the first time? Frankly, your admission about enjoying the guard's reaction to receiving an infraction concerns me.
    Nope. My feelings about untrained, unprofessional, convicted criminal, power-hungry, self-aggrandizing, civil-rights-violating, pathetic, failed-the-police-test-twelve-times, wanna-be-cop contract security guards are well known here.

    Even though I realize that the individual guard (usually) has no say into what uniforms his employer chooses to issue in my experience the contract companies that dress up their guards in police-like uniforms, badges, patches and patrol cars attract the kind of guard I described above.

    I see the great potential of the security industry, especially in these days after 9/11. However, I will proudly do whatever I can to rid the industry of the menace guards such as I described.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
      Well, obviously we don't let a DWI suspect get back in his car and go. We still tow the car, but the student suspect is free to go after information has been taken for a conduct report.

      The purpose of having peace officers, according to the college is to protect the college's staff, students and interests from outsiders (read: city scumbags).
      That's weird to me. As a non sworn security officer, once I took a DUI suspect into custody to protect him and the public, I could not release him, nor could the police officer who showed up to arrest him. The guy "had" to go, if it was detectable to the police officer, and we "had" to stop them if it was detectable to the security officer. This was due to the liability of allowing a drunk to drive.

      I can see you have the liability covered by impounding the vehicle, but the state dosen't require you prosecute the offense since you deprived the person of his motor vehicle?
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
        No, our union consulted with an attorney to see if we had a "duty to act" of sorts, and it was determined that we did not.
        That's fascinating. I'd of thought that being empowered by the state to enforce laws (make arrests) as a peace officer would require you to act in the state's name.

        It almost sounds like your a Justice of the Peace of some sorts.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
          Department policy. Guess who writes most of our policies? A panel of students with guidance from a Dean.
          No, you can not do any effective police like that. There is no way...
          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
          -Lieutenant Commander Data
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
            Well, obviously we don't let a DWI suspect get back in his car and go. We still tow the car, but the student suspect is free to go after information has been taken for a conduct report.

            The purpose of having peace officers, according to the college is to protect the college's staff, students and interests from outsiders (read: city scumbags).
            I bet the Attorney General would throw a fit. That method of policy making could be construed as obstruction/interfering.
            I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
            -Lieutenant Commander Data
            sigpic

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            • #36
              Originally posted by histfan71
              Nope......
              Even though I realize that the individual guard (usually) has no say into what uniforms his employer chooses to issue in my experience the contract companies that dress up their guards in police-like uniforms, badges, patches and patrol cars attract the kind of guard I described above.....
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by histfan71
                My feelings about untrained, unprofessional, convicted criminal, power-hungry, self-aggrandizing, civil-rights-violating, pathetic, failed-the-police-test-twelve-times, wanna-be-cop contract security guards are well known here.

                Even though I realize that the individual guard (usually) has no say into what uniforms his employer chooses to issue in my experience the contract companies that dress up their guards in police-like uniforms, badges, patches and patrol cars attract the kind of guard I described above.

                I see the great potential of the security industry, especially in these days after 9/11. However, I will proudly do whatever I can to rid the industry of the menace guards such as I described.
                I work for a contract company with 'police style' uniforms such as you describe. I have yet to meet any SOs like you describe above. None I work with have tested for the police or want be police. Three that I know worked as State or Federal Prisons. I did the prison thing. A couple of us have worked as fire fighters or for EMS. No cops or cop wannabes. I work with some who are retired and doing the security job for the extra paycheck. I don't work with any convicted criminals and none of us are violating anyone's civil rights as we answer phones, sing in employees and deliveries to the plant or issue weight tickets to each truck coming across the scales at our main gate. I don't know where all of your negativity comes from but you seem to be seeing alot more of this than I've noticed.
                Hospital Security Officer

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by histfan71
                  It is Blackinton's problem because they are the making the badge, not the vendor. Blackinton can always say no.
                  Badges don't mean anything important. You can have a badge that says anything. In addition to the Security Officer badge I wear at work, http://ssl.maxsell.com/ProductDetail...D=1953&sm=2_11 I have one with my Ham Radio Callsign on it-
                  http://ssl.maxsell.com/ProductDetail...D=2011&sm=2_14
                  I also have one which says Concealed Weapons Permit-
                  http://ssl.maxsell.com/ProductDetail...ctID=5&sm=2_11
                  Then there's the badge I have with my VFD card before we went to a customized badge- http://ssl.maxsell.com/ProductDetail...D=2227&sm=2_11
                  and my badge I have in a wallet with my EMT-B card- http://ssl.maxsell.com/ProductDetail...D=1950&sm=2_11
                  I even have a Official Taxpayers badge and ID card- http://www.nles.com/store/customer/p...productid=1305
                  Pretty much anything you want can be engraved on a shield or star.
                  Hospital Security Officer

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Wow... never saw a "taxpayers" badge before.
                    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                    "The Curve" 1998

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                      Wow... never saw a "taxpayers" badge before.
                      Well, while you are looking at it on the NIC website click on the ID Card and Documents section on the left and check out all the different IDs you can get or the assessories to build your own custom ID card. Lamination, Holograms, seals, wall certificates and more. If you can't find it there you can print up stuff on your own computer and have stuff done at office supply stores. Just having ID and badge is no gaurentee that the person is who they say they are.
                      Hospital Security Officer

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                        Wow... never saw a "taxpayers" badge before.
                        Love NIC, haven't seen their catalog in awhile, they come up with some funny stuff.

                        As far as badges go, it all depends on the state and what they say on them.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The guard can always go to work for a company that does not violate the law. So the guard does bear some responsibility for wearing the wrong uniform.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by histfan71
                            The guard can always go to work for a company that does not violate the law. So the guard does bear some responsibility for wearing the wrong uniform.
                            I think you are just being to anal about the uniforms. Switch to decaf.
                            Hospital Security Officer

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by histfan71
                              The guard can always go to work for a company that does not violate the law. So the guard does bear some responsibility for wearing the wrong uniform.
                              Histfan, Your comments about security personnel bother me. You assume all of us are cop wannabes who are ignorant and run around beating people senseless? I am former Law Enforcement and current security myself and frankly officers with your attitude disgust me. There seems to be a very common occurance among police officers that "we're the police and were better than you". I got news for you histfan, your badge may say police but we do the SAME job. Your job is to protect and serve the public while mine is to protect and serve the client. This country has suffered because of communication problems. You are a police officer by trade - not above anyone else. When I worked for PD we had a great relationship with local security, and the company I work for now has a great relationship with PD. Have you ever thought that maybe because police depts and government agencies refuse to treat security with respect that that may be why there are some bad apples that give us all a bad name. There are several crappy officers working in the security field, but there are even more hard working dedicated skilled professionals in this field. Before you go touting police are better I offer you to scoot on over to Officer.com and read about all the officers getting in trouble with the law. Of course the LAPD has its bad apples (Rodney King comes to mind) should I go around and say that you beat blacks and are racist just because some of your fellow officers beat up on one? There are more instances of police violating civil rights of others than security officers. If you don't like the officers that work security in your area then why not help solve the problem instead of contributing to it. You will find that if police departments work with security that strangely only top notch officers who know their limits and are good at their jobs are employed by the company. If you don't like security then I suggest you leave this website. Remember 1 thing, security outnumber police in the US 100 to 1 - might want those numbers on your side. Your attitude won't get you anywhere. This is the age of community policing and cooperation, not greed and being badge heavy. Obviously the concept of Community Oriented has escaped you.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                You assume all of us are cop wannabes who are ignorant and run around beating people senseless?
                                Most security guards are and most do exactly that. I honestly lost track of how many situations I responded to where a security guard used unnecessary and excessive force against a person. There are some INDIVIDUAL guards I have worked with who are not like that, but the vast majority are. My judgment comes from a total of 18 years in the law enforcement AND security field.

                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                I am former Law Enforcement and current security myself
                                Ditto. I currently manage an in-house security department supplemented by a contract security company from time to time. I have been out of law enforcement since 2003 when the college I worked for disbanded it's police department.

                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                I got news for you histfan, your badge may say police but we do the SAME job.
                                Security work is NOTHING like police work. There are some similarities, I concede, but still not the same thing. Law enforcement has heavy responsibility and accountability, two qualities seriously lacking in the security industry.

                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                Have you ever thought that maybe because police depts and government agencies refuse to treat security with respect that that may be why there are some bad apples that give us all a bad name.
                                No, because the reason the security industry gets so little respect is the minimal screening, employment, and training standards in the industry. Yes, I know there are exceptions to this general rule (Boeing seems to be one of those exceptions based both on your descriptions of your department and the personal experiences I have had with Boeing guards) as I have said on several different threads in the forum.

                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                There are several crappy officers working in the security field, but there are even more hard working dedicated skilled professionals in this field.
                                In my experience it is the other way around. The few "hard working dedicated skilled professionals" are vastly outnumbered by the "crappy officers." As I have said elsewhere in this forum, in-house guards get a better rep than contract guards because in my experience in-house agencies have high employment, screening, and training standards. They (generally) offer much higher pay and benefits than the contract companies, and are generally more interesting and challenging jobs. Therefore, in-house agencies can attract and retain guards of higher quality and caliber.

                                Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
                                Before you go touting police are better I offer you to scoot on over to Officer.com and read about all the officers getting in trouble with the law.
                                I do. One of the biggest differences between law enforcement and security is in exactly this area. Those few bad cops who were unworthy of the badge they wore were quickly fired by their agency, many were sent to prison where they belong, and can NEVER EVER work for another law enforcement agency. Security guards in the same situation, even if the company they worked for fired them, will just go and work for some other security company and continue their misconduct. It goes back to what I said above about responsibility, accountability, and hiring standards.

                                Michael, I have greatly enjoyed this debate with you. Seriously, I strongly believe that you should always listen closely to those who disagree with you. They often have valid points to make. It forces me to look at a situation from a different perspective and hopefully I will learn something from it. Keep your responses coming, all of you, not just Michael.

                                Take care and always work safe.

                                Comment

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