New cop cars.

[darrell]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

[N. A. Corbier]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

That light bar cannot be activated on public roads under Florida State Statute, unless ordered by a law enforcement officer, or used as "hazard" lights. That's one of the reasons that they probably chose to use so much white, contract security companies may not use white (or any other color), only amber. It makes it obvious that its not a security company car, a tow truck, or anything else.

Florida DOT also uses 1/2 light bars for their state trucks.

[Echos13]

It's interesting. The Road Rangers (A division of the DOT) here run amber and white and some even red and white on thier trucks. DOT's public safety units run amber and white while the LEO section runs blue and white which all seem to be ether crown vics or the new Impala (yuk). Certain contract companies working along the roads here run all white especailly those corner strobes which have been what appears to be actually thier POVs or semi-owned company trucks and cars. But there are a few security vehicles I have seen with a combination of white and amber but not in solid arrangement. For the exception of TWC. Which run the all amber/strobe. Some have the new the NFPA Delta Series which is pretty cool.

[darrell]

Our DOT assistance crews used to run all amber but now they are considered emergency vehicles (as are tow trucks) when they are parked on the side of the road assisting a motorist. You have to slow down move over for them just like police/fire/ems.

So now our DOT Assistance people have the same red beacon that MSP has on their cars.

[N. A. Corbier]

It's interesting. The Road Rangers (A division of the DOT) here run amber and white and some even red and white on thier trucks. DOT's public safety units run amber and white while the LEO section runs blue and white which all seem to be ether crown vics or the new Impala (yuk). Certain contract companies working along the roads here run all white especailly those corner strobes which have been what appears to be actually thier POVs or semi-owned company trucks and cars. But there are a few security vehicles I have seen with a combination of white and amber but not in solid arrangement. For the exception of TWC. Which run the all amber/strobe. Some have the new the NFPA Delta Series which is pretty cool.

FSS 493.Something prohibits any licensed security officer from running any color of light, other than amber, while performing duties. FSS 312.Something authorizes licensed security personnel to operate an amber light while on public roads within their site.

Remember that running any color of light on public streets is a moving violation, unless you are exempt from the provision or are under a "hazard condition."

This is the same type of statute as the "force in defence of property" statute that makes it illegal for a licensed security officer to use force to protect property. Its something that a state investigator, a DMV investigator, or a law enforcement officer can use against a contract security company/person to have their license revoked.

People who aren't licensed security may run amber and white all they want on private property, but may not activate them unless under a "hazard condition" on public roads.

[N. A. Corbier]

Our DOT assistance crews used to run all amber but now they are considered emergency vehicles (as are tow trucks) when they are parked on the side of the road assisting a motorist. You have to slow down move over for them just like police/fire/ems.

So now our DOT Assistance people have the same red beacon that MSP has on their cars.

Our tow trucks up here are required to display a red light (No amber) when recovering a vehicle on a public roadway. After the recovery is complete, they may display amber lights during transport, or elect to display no light.

Our moveover law covers all public workers. DOT, Police, Ambulance, Fire, Public Utilities. Tow Trucks are also covered when displaying a flashing red light. Red, without a siren, however an emergency vehicle does not make.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

I disagree with this statement, clear is a very common lightbar color. You are making the assumption that the lightbar is fully equipped which it does not appear to be, it appears to be a 4 strobe 8 halogen flasher lightbar. This set up would put a lot of clear stobe light to the sides but not so much to the rear. Additionally, the bar appears to be old and not taken care of therefore the lenses are faded. Faded lenses drastically reduce light output. Here at Boeing where I work, we run Federal Signal Vista lightbars with clear domes and red/clear/red/clear/red color scheme. We do a lot of accident response on the freeway for our local pd and noone has ever complained about our clear lights.

In the state of Washington, an emergency vehicle is definded by the Washington State Patrol. This includes tow trucks as well as some security companies. the lightbar color or siren does not make it an emergency vehicle.

[darrell]

Michael I know enough about emergency lighting to know that is a 8 head Whelen Patriot Strobe bar with front flashers, take downs and rear flashers.

There is to much white on that bar, while a lot of construction companies use clear on a bar it's still blinding to motorists. That bar not only looks rediculas the way it is, but it also would blind motorists if used at night.

Thats one main reason the National Fire Fighters Association banned all white light to the rear on Fire Rigs.

[N. A. Corbier]

Honestly, that light bar won't be used. At all. It is there because they outfit a regular police car with all the regular gear, then transfer the lenses to another vehicle, using amber and clear for the "support" vehicles.

The huge white section helps the on duty police officers recongize that its not "just another security guard," and they should not bother with it. Its a city employee.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Michael I know enough about emergency lighting to know that is a 8 head Whelen Patriot Strobe bar with front flashers, take downs and rear flashers.

There is to much white on that bar, while a lot of construction companies use clear on a bar it's still blinding to motorists. That bar not only looks rediculas the way it is, but it also would blind motorists if used at night.

Thats one main reason the National Fire Fighters Association banned all white light to the rear on Fire Rigs.

I'm going to disagree with you again on this but first let me say I respect your opinon. First, it is not a Patriot strobe bar. The Whelen LFL Patriot stobe lightbar was released in 2000, this bar is much older. Also, the Patriot is a low profile lightbar at only 2.1" tall, this lightbar is much taller. The lightbar is infact a old style Whelen 9000 series strobe lightbar. While you may be right, they may use the patriot now, the one in that picture is not the patriot. I still believe that that particular lightbar is a 4 strobe, 8 flasher lightbar. The lenses over the inboard lights lead me to believe they are halogen and not strobe, strobe lights use a different set of optics. However, without seeing the bar lit I cannot be 100% certain so Darrell I will concede to you the fact that it is an 8 strobe 4 flasher lightbar. As for the clear, well I still stand by my original post. If it was a brand new lightbar it would be hella bright. This particular lightbar is heavily faded. That will cut down on light output drastically. Likewise, its an older bar which means it most likely has a 4 pattern power supply (Comet Flash, Rapid Single, Double Flash, Sequential) and the patterns do effect how 'bright' the light appears to the eye. The corner strobes are designed to put light out to the corners, so that would diminish the effect some to someong looking at the bar from the front or rear. If I am right and those are halogen flashers and not strobes then they are only 20,000cp which is not even as bright as car headlights. If you are right, and those are infact strobes then they would be much brighter. However, would not be too bright. Keep in mind that a strobe light lens is designed to defuse the light and spread it over a wide area.

The NFPA does not "ban" equipment. The NFPA is not a rulebook. Rather the NFPA merely puts out 'guidelines' but not rules. They may strongly recommend no clear to the rear, but they have no authority to enforce anything. The same is true for the 'KKK' lighting specs used for ambulances. While the 'KKK' lighting package specifies a minimum of 14 lights flashing in alternating or simultaneous sequence, there is no penalty for refusing to use 'KKK' lighting. Again, these are guidelines not laws.

[N. A. Corbier]

I'm of the opinion that its a Whelen Edge 9000 series, like Michael is. It doesn't look new enough to be a Liberty.

But... I think the inboard flashers are actually the smaller linear strobe tubes. The amount of customization you can do with an Edge, Liberty, etc... is impressive. The reason I say they're inboard strobes is because I believe you can see the strobe tubes in the center, instead of the rounded flasher reflector.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

I'm of the opinion that its a Whelen Edge 9000 series, like Michael is. It doesn't look new enough to be a Liberty.

But... I think the inboard flashers are actually the smaller linear strobe tubes. The amount of customization you can do with an Edge, Liberty, etc... is impressive. The reason I say they're inboard strobes is because I believe you can see the strobe tubes in the center, instead of the rounded flasher reflector.

Based on the lenses over the inboard lights, those are halogen lenses. You are absolutely right though, someone could easily pop out the halogen assembly and replace it with a strobe. Wouldn't be as effective, but I have seen it done several times. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a black section in the middle of the lightbar. Whelen stopped putting those black sections in their lightbars when the re-designed them in 2001.

[darrell]

Based on the lenses over the inboard lights, those are halogen lenses. You are absolutely right though, someone could easily pop out the halogen assembly and replace it with a strobe. Wouldn't be as effective, but I have seen it done several times. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a black section in the middle of the lightbar. Whelen stopped putting those black sections in their lightbars when the re-designed them in 2001.

Redesigned yes BUT they still sell the bars with the black sections if you want them.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Redesigned yes BUT they still sell the bars with the black sections if you want them.

The new bars can no longer have a black section period. The new bars, both the 9M series and the Ultra Edge series, are modular bars. This means that all the bars are built the same. Even if you order a basic 4 strobe lightbar it is still built the same. The nice thing about modular lightbars is all the options; takedowns, flashers, inboard strobes are all the same size. So when you need to upgrade or change options its a matter of plug and play, very cool. The reason Whelen got rid of the black section is 1) it looks tacky and 2) it won't fit over the modular sections. A black section would cover two spaces rendering them useless if you only need one. The nice thing about it is 1) the new lenses are "clearer" allowing more light 2) even where no lights exsist you still have color lenses which add to the effectiveness of the lightbar. I suppose you could customize a black section if you really wanted one but you would not get one from the factory.

Darrell, please don't take my responses as being a jerk or smarta$$. Lightbars and police vehicle equipment are my hobby. Some people study guns or cars I study lightbars. My information comes from manufacturers and manufacturer representitives. As mentioned before, I respect your opinion and appreciate the 'debate'.

[darrell]

1) I aint a smart A$$ or jerk
2) Call Whelen and ask them about the edge strobe bar and the black section and PM me what they say. I just called them and yes you can get it. I also spoke to the rep today and he said the same thing.

3) Its tis also my hobby..