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Maglite 6D - busting the myth?

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  • Maglite 6D - busting the myth?

    I wasn't sure if this would warrant a thread of its own, but after chasing down answers to legalities relating to the use/carrying of 6D Maglites, I didn't want to bury them in a hijacked thread which can be found HERE if you're curious

    I'll start off with this statement/quote...

    Originally posted by Penthrox
    It's interesting to note the different laws between states. Like over in W.A Oc spray is legal for everyone.
    I have done Security in SA for 3 and a half years. This includes patrols, aviation screening, cash in transit and crowd control and in that time throughout my experience with many different companies I have never seen a security officer with a 6 d cell maglite. The reason being they are illegal. Comes under the a certain prohibited item law.

    Hope this clears up some confusion you seem to have.
    This troubled me as I couldn't find anything conclusive concerning this on the S.A. Police website (nor the Victorian Police website either), so I fired off a couple of Emails to both respective Police Departments regulating weapons, my results were as follows...

    It's a torch.
    Torches are not a prohibited weapons.

    Regards
    Victoria Police
    Licensing Services Division
    1300 651 645
    with regards to your query, the only definition of a Maglite 6D cell torch would be that of "illumination", without any further details in which to relate this query.



    Regards
    Corporate Facilities Management
    So I contacted the S.A. Attorney-Generals office 08-8207 1723 who forwarded me to the S.A. Weapons Hotline on 08-8204 2495, where a gentleman explained it was all in the intent/purpose for the item... basically it's a flashlight until it's used as otherwise and then it becomes an 'offensive weapon' thus carrying one is legal in both Victoria & South Australia

    An interesting observation however is that even if a 3D cell Maglite were used in self defence the Judicial body would regard it exactly the same as if it were a 6D, that being they were used to strike thus making them an offensive weapon, under the very same S.A. legislation/definition... a walking stick is just that until it's used to hit someone/something in which case it also is transformed into an 'offensive weapon'
    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

  • #2
    So, basically, the second you use it as a weapon, it becomes illegal? Nice. So, you must transition to the baton if you're allowed to carry one, even if your using the flashlight as a weapon is legal?
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      You've pretty much nailed it on the head there Mr. Corbier, though the legality aspect would undoubtedly become a judicial interpretation of the S.A. Weapons Act

      For example... confronted by a knife wielding lunatic whilst on patrol, unable to back away/retreat your Maglite is transformed into an 'offensive weapon' to defend against a sharp edged 'offensive weapon' pretty justifiable standpoint wouldn't you say?

      Under S.A. law, it appears anything used to strike (other than it's primary function) becomes an offensive weapon, hammers, baseball/cricket bats, golf clubs, saucepan etc.
      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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      • #4
        My opinion comes from a Canadian law perspective, not an Australian or American, but I assume there are points in common.

        When you use an item that's not normally a weapon (ie Maglite) against someone, it becomes a "weapon of opportunity". Now, as a private citizen using something as a weapon of opportunity is legal, IF you were facing death or greivous bodily harm with no viable alternative (ie retreat). This means that unlike a weapon that you are permitted under law to carry, you can't fit it in as you normally would in a use of force matrix (for example, a pr-24 can be used as a control/compliance tool even when you aren't in much danger).

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        • #5
          Working a high risk solo shift 1 night I swapped the 2D issued maglite for my 5D maglite only to end up with a very badly bruised knee. On the next night a McDonalds security guard chased 2 kids for stealing $15.00 in burgers and had a knife pulled on him and as I yelled outand opened up my overcoat, it became a nice "visual persuasian device" as they ran off. Even a pen or pencil can be used as a weapon.
          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
            Working a high risk solo shift 1 night I swapped the 2D issued maglite for my 5D maglite only to end up with a very badly bruised knee. On the next night a McDonalds security guard chased 2 kids for stealing $15.00 in burgers and had a knife pulled on him and as I yelled outand opened up my overcoat, it became a nice "visual persuasian device" as they ran off. Even a pen or pencil can be used as a weapon.
            Nice story! I agree that in strong/skilled hands pretty much anything can become a weapon, the only people not carrying offensive weapons are those law abiding citizens which probably need them IMHO

            Since taking the plunge and swapping over to a 3D maglite (140 Lumen mod'), I kinda' feel a little 'under dressed' so to speak... though I don't miss the tender 'back of the legs' it used to give me
            Last edited by Maelstrom; 10-03-2007, 12:09 AM.
            "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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            • #7
              You used to be able to buy a torch PR-24 (Side handle baton) holder from Signal One in NSW but I never used them. My 4D lives in my car and it is silver and looks more dangerous from a distance than the black model. I went to the mini-mag and Surefire models (work was nice enough to let me order the battery packs and not realise it) but at $300 AUS plus kits they are too far from the average "head wobblers" budget.
              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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              • #8
                I'm not familiar with the term 'head wobblers' is that a NSW thing?

                Yes I've seen those aftermarket PR-24 side Maglite handles kicking around on Flea-Bay... they looked quite awkward & unattractive IMHO

                SureFire torches are nice and bright (in a handsome compact package) but short run times on exotic OR excessively priced batteries doesn't appeal to me, besides my modified Mag' light is more than capable for the task (with decent run times)... allowing me to redirect excess cash into additional quality equipment

                If you're a bit of a lighting buff... you really should check out Black Bear's modified flashlight thread found HERE, his 220~1000+ Lumen beasts are quite extraordinary!
                Last edited by Maelstrom; 10-03-2007, 01:37 PM.
                "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                • #9
                  I read Black Bears posts - I was very interested to read what the Lighting Guru had to say about so many different brands as I would hate to count the times I have been away from my bag, car or just had lent a torch to someone and had to rely on my belt / pocket gear.

                  Yes Surefire execs must drive new cars with the price of their batteries and I was lucky that my work was nice enough to purchase the whole kit for me (had mine for 7 years now) but the old faithful Mag is my favourite though.

                  Hmmmmm a head wobbler is one of those cultural issues where their heads wobble when they speak to you - seems these people are big fans of "The Party" by Peter Sellers and the "Birdy Num Num" and they recently got beaten in the cricket against Australia. They have similar cousins you could say who form the basis of the cheaper industry staff.
                  "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                  • #10
                    Ah ha! I follow you now... must be a NSW reference however, that PC explanation is priceless!

                    Call them torches OR flashlights... either way I can't help myself, constantly on the lookout for an addition to an ever burgeoning collection currently totalling some 8 units... and I'm still pursuing a Streamlight Stinger XT
                    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                    • #11
                      I had something called a "pocket buddy" which was a give away at a Security Trade show in Sydney once and it was legendary - about the size of 2 x proximity cards together and it looked good too. It was designed to fit on an ID holder and be a portable source of LED light for 12 hours before the button cells needed replacing. It broke after 9 years of use but it bloody good. You can get other versions now from other companies that do similar tasks.
                      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                      • #12
                        Yeah, I've seen a few versions of that particular theme of 'hands free' LED lighting, really quite useful when tackling a multitude of locks etc. during any given shift

                        The 2 that stand out personally would be the Quiglight XP440, and those clip on lapel lights like the Streamlight 'Clipmate' 3 x LED units
                        Attached Files
                        "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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                        • #13
                          I bought an LED head lamp for about $20 US from a disposal store in 2000 and was shocked at the performance. I took it fishing and it worked well with total darkness and I did not have to find the on/off switch with smelly hands.

                          I used this when I helped out with a friend's patrol business when his wife was having a baby as when I visited a business park I had 100 premises to check on so could leave the maglite in the car and rely on the head lamp for the required amout of light. Also in residential areas it does not seem to alarm the general public as much.
                          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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