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Radio Security Issues(Encryption Costs?)

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  • Radio Security Issues(Encryption Costs?)

    My security company uses All Points radio trunked radios. Our concern there are millions of dollars of at stake when it comes to radio security and I was wondering:
    A. Is it possible to have encryption placed on our talk group.
    B. If (A) is possible how expensive are we looking.
    Here is the Radio System my company uses->http://www.radioreference.com/module...me=RR&sid=3577
    Edit/Delete Message
    Last edited by ChuckyZ73; 09-23-2007, 07:49 AM.

  • #2
    Encryption is certainly available, the link you posted doesn't work so i can't see your radios.

    http://www.transcrypt.com/link.sp?page=products

    This company makes alot of the encryption boards for two-way radios.

    They list what equipment is compatible.

    http://www.transcrypt.com/link.sp?page=OEM_Modules

    Not sure on cost, but i heard around $600.00 per radio depending on the level of encryption.
    ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
      My security company uses All Points radio trunked radios. Our concern there are millions of dollars of at stake when it comes to radio security and I was wondering:
      A. Is it possible to have encryption placed on our talk group.
      B. If (A) is possible how expensive are we looking.
      Here is the Radio System my company uses->http://www.radioreference.com/module...me=RR&sid=3577
      Edit/Delete Message
      Forget it, you're on a Moto Type 1 system...Good luck finding parts anymore. BTW, I am contracted to the feds, and am currently working in a fed facility that has a single room containing (per the techs there) over a billion and a half dollars worth of equipment. No encryption here.

      You want encryption on the cheap, use Nextel.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
        My security company uses All Points radio trunked radios. Our concern there are millions of dollars of at stake when it comes to radio security and I was wondering:
        A. Is it possible to have encryption placed on our talk group.
        B. If (A) is possible how expensive are we looking.
        Here is the Radio System my company uses->http://www.radioreference.com/module...me=RR&sid=3577
        Edit/Delete Message
        I'd save the money, and use it towards gear or pay raises. Nothing is totally secure, unless you're planning on spending "BIG" money.
        "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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        • #5
          would it be possible to adopt a series of radio code phrases like whats used in police radio protocols as an alternative?
          sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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          • #6
            No offense to you guys because you all seem sharp. But lets face it we are dealing with mickey mouse $4 per hour guards. we have codes already they are simple as hell and they still screw everything up. We need something they have no control over. Encrypting things are the best.

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            • #7
              Do you have access to a LTR UHF trunking site in your area??? If you do the transcrypt idea will work or you could use Kenwood TK3180's that have scrambling capability already in them. Transcrypt has an inexpensive inversion scrambler that might work but I would need to know what type of radios you have. Otherwise, there is not much more that you can do. I would also recommend Nextel.
              "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
              -Vince Lombardi

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
                No offense to you guys because you all seem sharp. But lets face it we are dealing with mickey mouse $4 per hour guards. we have codes already they are simple as hell and they still screw everything up. We need something they have no control over. Encrypting things are the best.
                Most police departments don't have encryption on the main channel (dispatch/patrol). Usually the only "secure" channels are for SWAT and narcotics. I just don't see the point in spending the money on a secure system, specially if the client isn't requiring it. As I said before, i'd rather see the money that would be used going to equipment and pay raises.
                "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                • #9
                  Our radios are Motorola MTX Series Handhelds.
                  As I said before, i'd rather see the money that would be used going to equipment and pay raises.
                  If the competition knows where our accounts are buying gear or having pay raises will be a waste of money because they will steal our accounts. I don't think you understand this.
                  As far as police not being encrypted they don't have any competition. So they don't have to worry about somebody stealing their accounts.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
                    Our radios are Motorola MTX Series Handhelds.

                    If the competition knows where our accounts are buying gear or having pay raises will be a waste of money because they will steal our accounts. I don't think you understand this.
                    As far as police not being encrypted they don't have any competition. So they don't have to worry about somebody stealing their accounts.
                    Do what? Your company is the only company that recieved an RFP/RFQ? You think having encrypted radio's will guarantee the contract to your company? I have to break it to you, but no contract is guaranteed to nobody. You can win and then lose a contract for just about any reason. Going out spending big money, just for contract security is about the silliest thing i've ever heard of. It's pretty simple, do your job, pray your company management does their's and maybe, JUST maybe you will not lose the contract. However, thinking that a radio system will keep competitor's away, or learning of the contract is just silly to me. Just my .02 cents.
                    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                    • #11
                      This was pretty common in Florida, "ZOMG THEY'LL FIND OUT WHERE OUR CONTRACTS ARE!" The thing is, most of your contracts share who their provider is at business association meetings and luncheons. And your competition is probably going to those, as well.

                      Another thing to remember is that some competitors have forms that new hires fill out that asks where the sites of their last company were.

                      Security through obscurity... isn't.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
                        Our radios are Motorola MTX Series Handhelds.

                        If the competition knows where our accounts are buying gear or having pay raises will be a waste of money because they will steal our accounts. I don't think you understand this.
                        As far as police not being encrypted they don't have any competition. So they don't have to worry about somebody stealing their accounts.
                        The competition, if they have their act together, know where your accounts are anyway. Just knowing where they are doesn't mean they can just waltz in and "steal" your business.
                        At our Minneapolis office, we have a patrol account we picked up in 1980. I'm sure every company knows we have it as I saw their squads drive by almost every night when I was sitting there doing paperwork. We have another patrol account in Minneapolis that we've had since before I started with the company in 1978! That account has changed ownership 4 times that I know of, and our service has been continuous.
                        So how do you keep an account for 30+ years? By providing superior service. You can have the fanciest cars with the latest led light bars, cages, black BDU SWAT-type uniforms and encrypted trunking radio systems. Your client could care less about these things. He only wants to sleep at night knowing his property is secure. If you provide excellent service, the client is less likely to switch to those other guys to save a fifty cents a hit.
                        "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View Post
                          Our radios are Motorola MTX Series Handhelds.

                          If the competition knows where our accounts are buying gear or having pay raises will be a waste of money because they will steal our accounts. I don't think you understand this.
                          As far as police not being encrypted they don't have any competition. So they don't have to worry about somebody stealing their accounts.
                          MTX800, 810, or 8000
                          "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
                          -Vince Lombardi

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                          • #14
                            Do the MTX 800 and 810s support third party encryption boards? I used to carry an 800, then an MTX1000.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                              Do the MTX 800 and 810s support third party encryption boards? I used to carry an 800, then an MTX1000.
                              Straight from Motorola they do not. I have never seen it done but Transcrypt may have a board that would plug into the radio. The problem arises when you attempt to talk through the repeater. I know that Motorola repeaters require an encryption board in order to pass the encrypted information to the other users on the system.

                              The MTX800 and 810 are obsolete by about 12 years. I think you may be referring to an MT1000. Same radio line but in UHF or VHF. The MTX refers to the 800 Mhz radio line.
                              "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
                              -Vince Lombardi

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