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leatherman and duty belt don't mix

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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    I have only ever worn the leather inner belts so if you have put on a few kgs or lost a few kgs or wearing another shirt underneath you can adjust it. Now I sneak a Garrison 1 inch belt under my suit so it still looks good but will hold extra gear if need to carry a radio or anything else. Had 1 brand with a dress belt that was over $100 US but it was crap and looked cheap.

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
    I later discussed with him the advantages of velcro inner belts.
    I've seen those around, but didn't understand/perceive their advantages over the regular belt keeper scenario, in your opinion how are they more effective?

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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    Those wearing the full catalogue (why you need 2 maglites I don't know) are either catalogue models or well overpaid. 1 x NYE I was working as Ops Mgr for my host company (contract) and as we our clients had paid mega $$$ for private sets ups right on the harbour to watch the fireworks, I had 3 radios on my belt (national parks, site and company trunk radio).

    Around 2030 I spotted 30 people jumping the 10 foot fences to get access to the private functions to get closer to the fireworks and we had to arrest them before they disappeared. Pursuing them with that much weight was not so bad since I had 2 radio carriers (learnt from last year) and held the 3rd one as my 2IC went tumbling down the grass path with his pants around his ankles (too much weight on his belt and not arranged right. I later discussed with him the advantages of velcro inner belts.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    If their trousers are falling down, their pants didn't fit correctly, nor were they wearing their belts correctly.

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  • NRM_Oz
    replied
    Prohibited Weapons

    Anything can be uses a weapon with the right means but the use of multi-tools and the like is a grey area as it can be argued that the item is holstered and in full view not in a pocket. By law in NSW a knife blade over 1.5" is a concealed weapon and a please explain unless you can prove your valid reason for having it on your person.

    As for a pouch for your leatherman (my super tool is 12 years old now) and as the case is on a duty belt (just in case for a rainy day) I found that a Swiss Army Tool (leather case) was the same size and better quality and BLACK too.

    I personally never liked loading up my duty belt with too much stuff as there was always an issue in need to move fast and I have seen a few moons from over supplied security officers running as their trousers fall down with the whole Uncle Mike's catalogue on their duty belts.

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    The actual wording in that particular document doesn't mention (non-telescopic) batons per say, but legal interpretation (Judicial) would definitely draw parallels

    In complete contrast, the Victorian Police Weapon Identification search engine details both straight stick & extendible batons as follows...


    * Extendible Baton/ASP/Gravity baton - Prohibited Weapon & Prohibited Import

    * Baton/Club/Nightstick - Controlled Weapon


    I suppose the 6D Maglite (or similar) could be considered a 'tool' thus placing it in the Dangerous Articles category, along with hammers & baseball bats

    Victoria Police Weapons Identification Search

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    The Act doesn't say anything about straight sticks, only expandable batons. Is there somewhere in there that talks about straight sticks, clubs, or billies?

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  • bigdog
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
    Hell, according to that Act, straight batons (billies or sticks) should be legal. It only makes the Expandable Baton prohibited, does it not?
    According to the act a licensed security agent can carry an expandable baton as long as they are also licensed to carry a firearm.

    13—Persons employed in the business of protecting or guarding property
    A person—
    (a) who is employed to protect or guard property by a person who carries on the
    business of protecting or guarding property; and

    (b) who is authorised by a licence granted under the Security and Investigation
    Agents Act 1995 to protect or guard property as a security agent; and

    (c) who is the holder of a firearms licence under the Firearms Act 1977
    authorising the possession and use of a handgun in the course of employment
    by a person who carries on the business of guarding property; and

    (d) whose duties of employment in protecting or guarding property reasonably require the possession of an extendable baton; and

    (e) who has completed a course of instruction approved by the Commissioner of
    Police in the proper use of extendable batons and has been awarded a
    certificate of competency by the person conducting the course,
    is exempt from the offences of possession and use of an extendable baton under
    section 15(1c)(b) of the Act in the course of his or her employment in protecting or
    guarding property if—
    (
    f) the baton can only be extended by gravity or centrifugal force; and

    (g) the exempt person has not been found guilty by a court of an offence
    involving the illegal possession or use of an extendable baton, a firearm or
    any other weapon; and

    (h) the exempt person does not carry the baton when he or she is engaged in
    crowd control; and
    (i) as soon as reasonably practicable after the exempt person uses the baton (as opposed to carrying the baton) in the course of his or her duties, he or she
    provides his or her employer with a written report setting out the date on
    which, and the reasons why, he or she used the baton

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Hell, according to that Act, straight batons (billies or sticks) should be legal. It only makes the Expandable Baton prohibited, does it not?

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  • Maelstrom
    replied
    Originally posted by Penthrox View Post
    I have never seen a security officer with a 6 d cell maglite. The reason being they are illegal. Comes under the a certain prohibited item law.
    I'm curious what information you base that point-of-view on? according to the S.A. Attorney-General's website (details HERE ) listing the prohibited/restricted weapons, it fails to mention maglites period, interestingly enough the Victoria Police web site has a similar register of prohibited/restricted weapons/articles and also fails to mention maglites (and similar aluminium torches) whilst detailing blades, batons, sprays, audio~chemical deterrents, spears & a various assortment of weaponry

    Thus I propose to you that it's not illegal under legislation but potentially under Judicial interpretation, especially when used as anything but a flashlight

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  • big_d
    replied
    Im sorry I was missimformed. Thanks for clearning that up. So in W.A you can carry CS if you are a citizen but not when on duty. What a stupid law. Thanks for clearning up about the 6D mag light. I was told by a few mates that do patrol work that they carry them. Will tell them that they are illegal.

    Does anyone know about the N.T law can I carry a 6D Mag Light up there. If not I will have to get a new duty light.

    Thanks Guys

    Duncan

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  • Penthrox
    replied
    Originally posted by big_d View Post
    Wow I want to move to N.S.W down here in S.A we can't carry a batton unless we carry a fire arm. With us on duty. So we have to be certified in fire arms and have to have a legal reason why we need them at our site.

    Maybe thats why most S.A security officers carry 6D Maglites.

    Its intresting to note the different laws between states. Like over in W.A Oc spray is legal for everyone.
    I have done Security in SA for 3 and a half years. This includes patrols, aviation screening, cash in transit and crowd control and in that time throughout my experience with many different companies I have never seen a security officer with a 6 d cell maglite. The reason being they are illegal. Comes under the a certain prohibited item law.

    In response to your statement about WA pepper spray laws, once again you are mislead or misinformed. It is actually not legal for "anyone" to carry. It is legal if you are a CITIZEN of WA so any joe blogg's can have it but it is ILLEGAL for any Security or Crowd Control officer to have it because it falls under the Prohibited Weapons Act.

    Hope this clears up some confusion you seem to have.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maelstrom
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
    Now days, Streamlight XP-20LED and a Streamlight Stinger LED if I need a uniform flashlight. Stinger stays on belt at all times, hopefully charged, and the XP-20LED is the "sudden encounter" flashlight.

    You know, the one you have in your hand when doing things like searching a building or whatnot, where there may be a sudden encounter with something that needs smacking to allow you to gain distance.
    I hear ya' on that one!

    Other than being used for a 'ROP' flash light mod, the 6D may simply end up living in the car's boot... the spec's for the XP20 are quite impressive, perhaps I could add one to my ever burgeoning collection LOL
    Last edited by Maelstrom; 09-15-2007, 05:02 AM.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I upgraded to a Streamlight Stinger. The 6D was given to me by a friend of mine at the time, because he had literally no use for it. It lasted about a week before I bought a Stinger.

    Now days, Streamlight XP-20LED and a Streamlight Stinger LED if I need a uniform flashlight. Stinger stays on belt at all times, hopefully charged, and the XP-20LED is the "sudden encounter" flashlight.

    You know, the one you have in your hand when doing things like searching a building or whatnot, where there may be a sudden encounter with something that needs smacking to allow you to gain distance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ron Jessee
    replied
    a SWAT entry ram? jeeze that's a huge kleig light

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