I had a little discussion with my boss and in doing so he said I could not cary federal hydrashok ammo because the "hypodermic needle" was "too aggressive for a guard to use". I would like to change his mind but need some actual facts and studies and such. any ideas?
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Ummmm, ok....
Is "Hypodermic Needle" a euphamism for jacketed hollow point ammo?
I'm not putting the two together in the manner you posted; Far as I know, Federal brand or otherwise, duty ammo should be just that... If you need to discharge your fiream in the course of your duties, IMHO, it shouldn't make a bit of difference what type of bullet you use, as long as a situation can be diffused with minimal damage (Don't use a .50 BMG when a .22 will do) unless you are also restricted per company guidelines as to number of grains, bullet type, etc...
Hell, where I am (hospitality industry), using OC on a subject could be considered "Too Agressive" under certain instances...“Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
"I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"
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The choice of law enforcement agencies nationwide, Federal's unique center-post design delivers controlled expansion and the notched jacket provides efficient energy transfer to penetrate barriers while retaining stopping power. The deep penetration of this jacketed bullet satisfies even the FBI's stringent testing requirements.
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Black Talons (Ranger SXT Series) were controversial since they could defeat body armor. Of course, so can a .223 fired from an AR, and definitely a 7.62 from the AK.
I have never heard of a person calling Hydroshok "hypo" bullets.
I have a feeling the person did not actually make any consideration on what his guard force should be carrying ammowise, and just said, "buy some bullets," then his insurer gave him a list of "things that if you do, we will drop you for." Black Talons were on the list.
Insurance companies, for some stupid reason, want ball ammo. Minimum tissue disruption. Granted, you just dumped 1 round into a guy (no more, after all, the more bullets the more damage) and the round exited and hit the gas tank of a bus full of nuns with babies in their laps, exploding instantly and killing everyone within a half mile radius, but hey.Some Kind of Commando Leader
"Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law
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There have been many post and reasons why certain shells should be used or not used. Like if you use a 357 mag and the guy you shoot has a 25 cal then that will be reason to charge you with excessive force. Some make sense and some are just plain dumb. When I head out to my truck in the morning I don't worry if this is my day to die or not because I know that I carry enough fire power to equalize the barrel that is aiming my way more or less.
Most the guys in my company are cops and many other cops stop by to shoot the breeze and not one has ever asked to see what type ammo I carry. I do use the same as most of them do but never questioned. Should you ever have to use your piece ( Chances are slim )remember dead if forever. Jail time and fines are not.THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
http://www.boondocksaints.com/
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Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View PostBlack Talons (Ranger SXT Series) were controversial since they could defeat body armor. Of course, so can a .223 fired from an AR, and definitely a 7.62 from the AK.
I have never heard of a person calling Hydroshok "hypo" bullets.
I have a feeling the person did not actually make any consideration on what his guard force should be carrying ammowise, and just said, "buy some bullets," then his insurer gave him a list of "things that if you do, we will drop you for." Black Talons were on the list.
Insurance companies, for some stupid reason, want ball ammo. Minimum tissue disruption. Granted, you just dumped 1 round into a guy (no more, after all, the more bullets the more damage) and the round exited and hit the gas tank of a bus full of nuns with babies in their laps, exploding instantly and killing everyone within a half mile radius, but hey.
Security officers are expendable, insurance dollars are not.
Chucky your remarks were on target in a very humorous manner. Tip of the hat!
Enjoy the day,
Bill
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ammo
Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View PostHe said he does want hollow point ammo however none of the "killer" bullets.
from fmj ,jhp and soft lead they all kill.
Sounds like your boss is cheap and he got a deal from he's ins company to carry the wimpest round out there.
Just my two cents.CAPTAIN KOOLAID 9594
oh ya
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Originally posted by ChuckyZ73 View PostHe said he does want hollow point ammo however none of the "killer" bullets.
It sounds like your boss doesn't really know much of what he is talking about. The whole, "I don't want killer bullets" only proves his ignorance."To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu
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I'm looking for the ammo that shoots out a little red flag from the end of the barrel that says "Bang!" Anyone know where I can get those?
Unfortunately, the fact is that any given round and/or caliber can be "inappropriate" for one situation and not for another and it's Murphy's law that you'll have the "wrong" load in your clip when the brown goes down."Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques
"I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous
"There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9
"History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron
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Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View PostBlack Talons (Ranger SXT Series) were controversial since they could defeat body armor. Of course, so can a .223 fired from an AR, and definitely a 7.62 from the AK.
I have never heard of a person calling Hydroshok "hypo" bullets.
I have a feeling the person did not actually make any consideration on what his guard force should be carrying ammowise, and just said, "buy some bullets," then his insurer gave him a list of "things that if you do, we will drop you for." Black Talons were on the list.
Insurance companies, for some stupid reason, want ball ammo. Minimum tissue disruption. Granted, you just dumped 1 round into a guy (no more, after all, the more bullets the more damage) and the round exited and hit the gas tank of a bus full of nuns with babies in their laps, exploding instantly and killing everyone within a half mile radius, but hey.ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.
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" I don't want killer bullets" . That just blows my mind! What can/do you say to someone that tells you that!?
Be safe,
Hank" We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall
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I love this thread. The owner of the company I work for is former HPD. I asked him once about load choice considering the post I was working at had absolute CRAP for any kind of potential backstop.
The site was a small bank with floor to ceiling plexiglass on all but 1 side, and the 4th side had 8 to 10 tellers arranged in neat rows. On two sides were high traffic roadways, and one side was backed by a mini mall.
He answered my question by flat out telling me to get hydra shok or frangible ammo.
I think in the past so much emphasis has been placed on tissue damage with the way the bullet mushrooms (one armchair commando tried to explain the hydrashok as some kind of discarding sabot round lmao) that they forget that the main purpose is to prevent overpenetration in the first place. Whether you are LE, Security, or citizen, we are all accountable for what our ammo does, regardless of intent.sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:
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Originally posted by SecTrainer View PostI'm looking for the ammo that shoots out a little red flag from the end of the barrel that says "Bang!" Anyone know where I can get those?
Unfortunately, the fact is that any given round and/or caliber can be "inappropriate" for one situation and not for another and it's Murphy's law that you'll have the "wrong" load in your clip when the brown goes down." We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall
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