Does size really matter? - Extendable Batons

[Maelstrom]

I've recently been looking into getting myself a telescopic baton, kinda' leaning towards a 16 ~ 21 inch Casco unit ($100 ~ $110 AUD) because I already own a holster/pouch which will accomodate a collapsed device between 6 ~ 8 inches.

I've had a few fellow SO's comment that my 19 inch 6D torch is 'too big' or a potential lawsuit (waiting to happen), while I'm comfortable lugging it around I pondered that perhaps a small extendable baton would be less intimidating residing on my duty belt.

So here's my question, how much more effective would the larger baton be? additionally I was contemplating fitting an LED baton torch to the end of it thus reducing (further still) my duty belt's horded apparatus... anyone else use these?

FWIW I'll eventually be attending a batons/handcuffs accreditation training, but I figured I should purchase the gear first rather than turn up empty handed at the course

Any thoughts? comments? advice?

[Andy Taylor]

I don't know your laws there, but here in California, using a baton as a flashight is likley to land you in jail for brandishing. Unless you have cause the weapon should not be removed form it's holder. If you mearly needed a light, then you are not justified in removing the baton. On the flipside, if you are truely in fear of your life then you can't get in trouble for using a light as a defensive weapon. Check your local laws.

[jeff194307]

Andy is correct. People who want to modify their flashlight into a weapon are on a road to trouble. If your job is unarmed and you feel that you are in danger, you have two options. Either convince your employer that you truly need to be armed, or find other emplyment. Andy and I have both worked at a shoping mall in Sacramento that required very good people skills. Niether of us was harmed there. Maybe you need to develop very good comunication skills so that you can accomplish your job with confidence which will eliminate any need for use of force.

[K-9 Aussie]

I've recently been looking into getting myself a telescopic baton, kinda' leaning towards a 16 ~ 21 inch Casco unit ($100 ~ $110 AUD) because I already own a holster/pouch which will accomodate a collapsed device between 6 ~ 8 inches.

I've had a few fellow SO's comment that my 19 inch 6D torch is 'too big' or a potential lawsuit (waiting to happen), while I'm comfortable lugging it around I pondered that perhaps a small extendable baton would be less intimidating residing on my duty belt.

So here's my question, how much more effective would the larger baton be? additionally I was contemplating fitting an LED baton torch to the end of it thus reducing (further still) my duty belt's horded apparatus... anyone else use these?

FWIW I'll eventually be attending a batons/handcuffs accreditation training, but I figured I should purchase the gear first rather than turn up empty handed at the course

Any thoughts? comments? advice?

Ok Victorian Police, as all other Police in Australia are now issued with 26" ASP batons. Some, yes have 26" Casco's but ASP are renowned as the best batons in the world and rightly so. Their construction and materials used seem to be above the oppositions.

If you stick with the same size and type of equipment as the Police have, and when it comes time to use that equipment i.e. baton strike and a Police Officer questions you on why you have that particular piece of equipment it looks a whole lot better for you with a response of "If it's standard issue for you people, and good enough for the Victorian Police, then it's good enough for me", plus have the correct training then you will always be fine.

BTW, make sure you do the PPCT Baton/Handcuff course as that is exactly what Victorian Police are taught. If you need some further information I'm more than happy to pass on instructor details etc.

16-21" batons are used in more crowded environments, but really are just a bit to short, where as the 26" baton is just a good lenght, plus the same size as the old 'straight stick" (PR24) Police over here have used for decades.

[jeff194307]

see my response to "weapons on the job"

[Maelstrom]

Andy is correct. People who want to modify their flashlight into a weapon are on a road to trouble.

I haven't modified it at all, it's just I wanted a larger torch due to their extended battery life (operational cycle), I also have a tactical style 1 Watt Luxeon & Hi-intensity LED (small) unit, from what fellow SO's have stated 3 cells seem to be the acceptable maximum size...

If your job is unarmed and you feel that you are in danger, you have two options. Either convince your employer that you truly need to be armed, or find other employment.

This position used to be armed but because of changing Australian gun laws (and employers fear of litigation/insurance premiums) our employer no longer has any armed positions, FWIW I'm not even supplied with a torch

Maybe you need to develop very good comunication skills so that you can accomplish your job with confidence which will eliminate any need for use of force.

I can't help but feel a bit insulted there... my people skills are more than adequate and whilst I've only worked in this field for just over a year, I've dealt with difficult & physically aggressive people for 15 years in my previous employment.

Additionally as I'm responsible for locking down valuable (portable) property, I was looking into such gear so I don't have to use it but have it if the situation ever arose that might warrant it's use... our RTO's taught us that to be truly effective and able to adapt to any circumstances (full use of Force Continuum) it's better to be over equiped than found lacking

State laws permit me to carry a baton/handcuffs, but potential litigation avenues can be minimised through appropriate training (as suggest by K-9)

[Guest]

well..

In my experience, it depends on where you work. For example, when I am in a night club, I carry my 16-in.(too many people around), even though Corbier says it doesn't exist, (too many people around.) If I am on a construction site or other location with few people who could by innocent hits, I carry a 21-in or longer. It's still all about comfprt and what you train with though.

[ptbeast]

Unless you are required to bring your own baton to training, I would suggest completing the training, trying a few different sizes, and using the one that you find most comfortable.

In general, unless you are going to be in a very crowded area (as others have noted) the longest baton that you are comfortable with, the more effective (and intimidating if necessary) it will be. Personally, I like the 26" ASP.

It is always interesting to see the opinions of others on topics like this. I think it really boils down to personal preference and training.

Dave

[Blade Runner]

I would recommend a Monadnock AutoLock. You don't have to "sling" it open, you can simply extend it behind your back to prepare for a situation. Also, instead of slamming it into a hard surface to collapse it, you just press the button on the tailcap and voila'!, it slides closed. More info can be found here---- http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...BA056&cat=3005

Best of luck with your decision.

[Maelstrom]

Unless you are required to bring your own baton to training, I would suggest completing the training, trying a few different sizes, and using the one that you find most comfortable.

Actually... I was informed by the RTO you do need to provide your own equipment for training, some instructors even require you to attend with an original hard type baton

I'm leaning towards a 21" baton possibly an ASP as it telescopes a tad smaller than it's Casco counterpart... only time will tell, thanks for your input guys!

[JSam21]

I carry a 26" ASP. I'm a bigger guy and I've always felt that the 21 is just a lilttle bit too small for my tastes. Don't even look at a 16 if you are in a hard uniform. You have to get in way, way too close to get a good strike with it. As for the 31. You don't want to lug that thing around all day on your waist. Its mainly a riot/mounted batton. But if you wanna swing that bat go for it.

[Hank1]

I carry the 21 inch Monadnock expandable baton with the stainless finish. Excellent tool.

[Maelstrom]

I've noted ASP airweight extendable batons are made from aircraft alloy thus making it 40% lighter than the regular ASP (with a claimed 98% strike potential), would it be more effective tickling an offender with a feather than one of these?

Thanks guys

[blocka]

In use an ASP 21" mainly because thats what was used on my course therefore what I trained with. Its not too small but its not too big to be a pain to carry

[JSam21]

I've noted ASP airweight extendable batons are made from aircraft alloy thus making it 40% lighter than the regular ASP (with a claimed 98% strike potential), would it be more effective tickling an offender with a feather than one of these?

Thanks guys

They hit just as hard but one of our FTO's discourages our officers from getting them. With the less weight it puts it in your head that you have to swing harder. The harder you swing the more energy you use. The more energy you use the faster you exhaust said energy.