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  • #16
    I solomnley disagree with the baseball hat issue. I think they are nice because they are practical. Campaign hats, eight-points, ice-cream man hats, all fine and dandy in certain settings, but when you are crawling and sneaking around at night and potentially have to chase/fight people or head out into rugged terrain, it's nice to have a firm hat that will hold to your head, is more durable and not "crushable", and if it happens to become destroyed you are out 16 bucks, not 70.

    Though I will say, every hat has their place. As do baseball hats.
    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
    "The Curve" 1998

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by BHR Lawson
      I solomnley disagree with the baseball hat issue. I think they are nice because they are practical. Campaign hats, eight-points, ice-cream man hats, all fine and dandy in certain settings, but when you are crawling and sneaking around at night and potentially have to chase/fight people or head out into rugged terrain, it's nice to have a firm hat that will hold to your head, is more durable and not "crushable", and if it happens to become destroyed you are out 16 bucks, not 70.

      Though I will say, every hat has their place. As do baseball hats.
      Well, that's what makes for horseraces...different opinions!

      I think I wouldn't mind the military/Marine Corps cap (also called a patrol cap) style, which would offer the same practicality you mention without projecting such a dorky appearance. They're made now in lots of different colors other than camo, etc., also, and you can buy them for $10-15 retail.
      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SecTrainer
        Well, that's what makes for horseraces...different opinions!

        I think I wouldn't mind the military/Marine Corps cap (also called a patrol cap) style, which would offer the same practicality you mention without projecting such a dorky appearance. They're made now in lots of different colors other than camo, etc., also, and you can buy them for $10-15 retail.
        A few years ago, this and the "Sheriff" hat were the only authorized covers at Bigdog21's employer. You took an OD USMC patrol cover, dyed it black, and had a hat. The dying was both to match the uniform and remove the USMC logo.

        Now they wear baseball caps. Thankfully, I was prohibited from wearing one, and could only wear a smokey bear by order of the owner.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          A few years ago, this and the "Sheriff" hat were the only authorized covers at Bigdog21's employer. You took an OD USMC patrol cover, dyed it black, and had a hat. The dying was both to match the uniform and remove the USMC logo.

          Now they wear baseball caps. Thankfully, I was prohibited from wearing one, and could only wear a smokey bear by order of the owner.
          The campaign hat is obviously expensive and it's difficult to maintain it's shape. The edges can curl up just sitting in a hot car unless you have a special "carrier" for them. I also think it looks just a bit pretentious. The first city PD I worked for wore them and we ended up using them as frisbees.

          When we dropped the campaign hats, we went to one that I have always preferred ever since. I don't know what it's called exactly, but it's the style that is still commonly worn by airline pilots, is the best way I can describe it. It doesn't have any "points" like the former NYPD hats and it DOESN"T LOOK LIKE AN ICE CREAM VENDOR'S HAT EITHER, MR. SMARTY-PANTS BHRLAWSON (well....maybe in white it would suggest ice cream). Very sharp in navy, black and tan, IMHO, and hey - there'd be room on the bill for my scrambled eggs! And a gold band. Oh, yeah, and a gold badge that says "GODALMIGHTY". What else could you want?

          I and my fellow cops never had any trouble wearing this sort of hat into any environment, with only the occasional need for replacement. But, if the situation is such that you're going to ruin this hat, you probably should be wearing a helmet, because whether the hat costs $16 or $46, it's your PUMPKIN that's going to be expensive to fix, not the hat.

          And, incidentally, it wasn't wearing the hat that usually broke it anyway - it was dumbos sitting on their hats that broke most of them. Once you explained the difference between their heads and their arses to these heffalumps ("This is your arse and this is your head...this is where the hat goes...see how much better it fits your head than your arse? Very good...now you've got it!"), you didn't usually wind up replacing many hats.

          Sheriff's hat as worn by the Wackenhut "special" officers would be my second choice - straw for summer.

          Speaking of straw. My third choice, particularly for summer wear, would be the hat with the beer cup holders on either side and straws leading directly to the oral orifice for instant, effortless refreshment. (If you have anything to say to me, though, try to do it early in my shift when still I'm not very fresh...yet. I might forget later.)
          Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-09-2007, 04:33 PM.
          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
            A few years ago, this and the "Sheriff" hat were the only authorized covers at Bigdog21's employer. You took an OD USMC patrol cover, dyed it black, and had a hat. The dying was both to match the uniform and remove the USMC logo.

            Now they wear baseball caps. Thankfully, I was prohibited from wearing one, and could only wear a smokey bear by order of the owner.
            Certain officers are still issued the USMC cover and the seriffs hats.
            "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

            Comment


            • #21
              As I said, every hat has its place. When I was working a detail as a CPO where I was standing out in front of a door checking IDs for people coming in and out, I wore my CPO hat. It was a good piece of headgear for that detail. When I was on Hurricane duty in LA I wore a baseball hat because we were at times crawling around in blown over businesses, through rough terrain, and other unpleasant areas, the CPO hat would not have been a wise choice there even if it was more "professional". It is my belief that baseball hats look better than the military PC covers. Military BDU style hats with a police style uniform look silly. I can understand if you wear one on a BDU style uniform though.

              Another for instance... If you are working an area like a populated mall, the campaign hat, CPO hat, eight point, garrison cap, whatever may be the better choice because it simply fits the area. But when you are working somewhere that is a little more rugged and requires more dexterity like a bike patrol, high-crime (proactive security) housing complex, disaster area, etc... you are probably better off with the baseball hat.
              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
              "The Curve" 1998

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by FireEMSPolice
                What is it with mall security and white uniforms? Its this way in most malls I have been to (including my own) and they look awful. I only have 3 shirts (paid for them out of my own pocket since most of ours look grey or awful). After 1 or 2 days, they look like I came out of a factory or something. How do they expect us to look professional? Is there anything I can do?
                When, I was a police explorer we had white shirts. The pants were navy blue, with a french blue stripe like the officers. I, hated the white shirts with a passion.

                In my area Baltimore/Washington Metro area just about every color combination is used by both police and security. White shirts are normally worn by LT's and above.
                "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Before I became a CPO and on Bike Patrol at Wackenhut I used to wear the white shirt. It didn't bother me so much, the only thing I didnt like about it was that EVERYTHING showed, from an accidental drop of ketchup to a mark if you brushed up against something dusty/dirty. Not exactly a good color choice for Warehouse Security IMO, but as most things, it can have its place. I would not mind wearing white if I was in a mall or an office situation.
                  "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                  "The Curve" 1998

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    White shirts can be fine, but only if the fabric is treated with anti-stain material to prevent every little drop of dust from forming a giant black smear on the shirt. They also need to be regularly dry cleaned (even if with that Dryel thing), and then whitened routinely (bleach, UV stabilizer, whatever goes with that fabric...)

                    White shirts are an investment that the individual wearing them must undertake, or they look like ass.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                      But when you are working somewhere that is a little more rugged and requires more dexterity like a bike patrol, high-crime (proactive security) housing complex, disaster area, etc... you are probably better off with the baseball hat.
                      Of course, if you're working bike patrol, you'd better be wearing a bike helmet (or better), and if you're working a disaster area I'd be thinking in terms of a hard hat.

                      I do kind of agree with you that the military cap wouldn't look right with a standard security/police style uniform - better with BDU's.

                      So...I think we do agree that every hat has its place, but I just don't think a baseball cap is appropriate for what you might call "normal/typical duty situations" when worn with standard police/security uniforms. It's just as much out of place to me as the military patrol cap. A baseball cap would be more appropriate for very casual uniforms such as polo shirts with cargo pants, etc., however.

                      ...but to put a guy in a nice, crisp, professional uniform and then top him off with a baseball cap just destroys the whole look you're trying to achieve, to my way of thinking. If that's what they're trying to do, they should just go all the way and put the officer in a beanie with a propeller, or maybe a dunce cap. Nope...to me, it's like making a banana split and then topping it off with an olive instead of a cherry - with the exception of those special situations you mention.

                      I've noticed, incidentally, that several of our local PDs are getting real sloppy in their appearance anyway. Really cheap-looking uniforms that don't fit properly, "tactical" boots all scuffed up, etc. They even seem to be dropping some of the "appearance" items like collar pins...basically just dark navy BDUs that they look like they've been sleeping in. What's that all about, anyway?
                      Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-10-2007, 04:59 AM.
                      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SecTrainer
                        Of course, if you're working bike patrol, you'd better be wearing a bike helmet (or better), and if you're working a disaster area I'd be thinking in terms of a hard hat.
                        When one works Bike Patrol, they may be expected to get off of said bike from time to time. Nothing makes you look like more of a goofball than when you are walking around with a helmet on. I kept a hat in my patrol bag in the bike so when I had to dismount in no particular hurry I could toss the hat on my head and lock the helmet to the bike.

                        As far as disaster areas go. You don't really need a hard-hat for everywhere you go. The areas I was stationed in, a hard hat would have rarely been needed and hardly practical. The baseball hat worked just fine.


                        So...I think we do agree that every hat has its place, but I just don't think a baseball cap is appropriate for what you might call "normal/typical duty situations" when worn with standard police/security uniforms. It's just as much out of place to me as the military patrol cap. A baseball cap would be more appropriate for very casual uniforms such as polo shirts with cargo pants, etc., however.
                        We'll have to agree to agree a little bit and disagree on the rest. As a Police Officer, I'll have a baseball hat on in uniform on regular patrol. Like I said, it's practical and tactical. I dont have to worry about a passing semi taking it off, I dont have to worry about sitting on it, I dont have to worry about it being pulled down over my face, etc... The baseball cap, I believe is becoming more and more universal, but it still has places where I dont think it should be, such as on honor guards, in office or lobby settings, at parade details (when in the parade itself), and sometimes on certain work details. But overall, it's a good piece of uniform for most situations.

                        I've noticed, incidentally, that several of our local PDs are getting real sloppy in their appearance anyway. Really cheap-looking uniforms that don't fit properly, "tactical" boots all scuffed up, etc. They even seem to be dropping some of the "appearance" items like collar pins...basically just dark navy BDUs that they look like they've been sleeping in. What's that all about, anyway?
                        Departments around here have been switching from standard uniforms to coveralls because they are more rugged and last 3x as longer than a traditional uniform. On uniforms like this they usually drop the pins and badges in favor of sewn on patches.
                        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                        "The Curve" 1998

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                          As far as disaster areas go. You don't really need a hard-hat for everywhere you go. The areas I was stationed in, a hard hat would have rarely been needed and hardly practical. The baseball hat worked just fine.
                          If you're working in and around unstable structures in disaster areas, you'd better be wearing a certified police helmet or a hard hat. OSHA commented on this very thing with respect to officers working around such buildings after Katrina, if I can find the reference. If I can't (I have exactly 2 tons of printed material I need to file), I'll sum it up this way: OSHA wasn't happy one little bit, but I don't think they actually brought any safety actions.

                          We'll have to agree to agree a little bit and disagree on the rest.
                          Yup.

                          Departments around here have been switching from standard uniforms to coveralls because they are more rugged and last 3x as longer than a traditional uniform. On uniforms like this they usually drop the pins and badges in favor of sewn on patches.
                          Heck, our PD has even dropped the patches and name pins - they're down to just the badge. I'm expecting something in vulcanized rubber next - perhaps something made from recycled truck tires. That should really wear well, and cheap, too!
                          Last edited by SecTrainer; 05-10-2007, 06:12 AM.
                          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SecTrainer
                            If you're working in and around unstable structures in disaster areas, you'd better be wearing a certified police helmet or a hard hat. OSHA commented on this very thing with respect to officers working around such buildings after Katrina, if I can find the reference. If I can't (I have exactly 2 tons of printed material I need to file), I'll sum it up this way: OSHA wasn't happy one little bit, but I don't think they actually brought any safety actions.
                            There are times you have to go with what you got and worry about OSHA later.
                            "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                            "The Curve" 1998

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                              There are times you have to go with what you got and worry about OSHA later.
                              Yes, but the point was that police agencies should make sure that "what you've got" is appropriate...before the fact. Hard hats are typically adjustable-fit, and agencies, knowing that they will need to pass them out when a disaster strikes, should lay in a supply of them just like they do other disaster supplies and gear. Surprisingly, a certified hard hat is not that expensive, probably because they're sold by the millions.
                              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hm, it's probably something they dont think about, out of all the police departments Ive ever been in, I cannot recall a single one of them having a stock of hardhats anywhere.
                                "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                                "The Curve" 1998

                                Comment

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