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Who all works on sites where you can't carry anything for defense...including batons.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    James2go30

    Straying a little off topic here, you are lucky you are allowed to do evictions. The lawyers for the Montreal Police decided a few years ago that since an hotel room is a (temporary) dwelling & the law says you can not evict someone from their dwelling, wuthout due process, we can not throw out kids on Spring Break etc that are disturning all the other guests. We used to work under the 3 strikes & you are out rule. 2 warnings & an eviction the 3rd time.

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  • EMTGuard
    replied
    No weapons at all at our post in the Steel Mill. The clients don't want armed SOs. If the Coast Guard ever calls to raise the MARSEC level (Marine Security) at our facility and armed personel are required we have been told that the plant will contract for Rent-a-Cops from the local Sheriff's Office. They won't even contract for Armed SOs through our company.

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  • locknid
    replied
    also from what i have seen the companies who are unwilling to give defense equipment also do the absolute minimum training required by the state. if i had to deal with drunks under any circumstances i would demand at least some good pepper spray, people do some really random stuff when drunk

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Basically, they are more concerned with their liability than your skin. "You can always get another guard."

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  • locknid
    replied
    When i started I could carry a baton and pepper spray as defense weapons, which was fine until I found out I was being placed on so-called armed properties. I luckily never got into any problems. If I was required to do anything more then watch and report I would require at least some form of defense weapon. That makes me mad when security companies do not allow their guards to be properly equipped.

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    If your post orders require that you confront and physically remove trespassers if necessary, and you haven't been trained or equipped, then ask to be transferred to another site where O&R is practical. Otherwise, start looking for another security job, for your own safety.

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  • james2go30
    replied
    yup

    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Let me get this straight. Your post orders state that you are to remove trespassers, etc... ANd you haven't been given tools or training to do that? Wow. Like I said, if you're hurt, you own them.
    WE remove tresspassers, skateborders are my least fav...as they travel in packs, transients, respond to units for any kind of complaint knowing it could be bad situation, handle evictions etc., etc.,...the head guy over security on all the properties managed by the company that contracts us says the sight of a baton may scare our guests and does see them as appropriate.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by james2go30
    No orders here written or otherwise say to just observe and record...In the rules of this property we are to remove tresspassers, transients etc. The only thing say is if it gets too bad grab your radio and have f/d call police
    Let me get this straight. Your post orders state that you are to remove trespassers, etc... ANd you haven't been given tools or training to do that? Wow. Like I said, if you're hurt, you own them.

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  • james2go30
    replied
    Actually

    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    You're required to confront people? (remove transients from property, etc...)

    That goes beyond the average guard's mission of "deter, observe, report." Do your post orders actually say you are to do this? If so, I can see the company being setup for a failure to train lawsuit (by you) if you are injured in any way by someone you are required to confront.

    If your written post orders say, "You are a visible deterrence, do not confront," then whoever told you to remove people is wrong. You go by what your written post orders say. Period.
    No orders here written or otherwise say to just observe and record...In the rules of this property we are to remove tresspassers, transients etc. The only thing say is if it gets too bad grab your radio and have f/d call police

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    I've been working unarmed dealing with these things in hotels for 30 years now. I completely feel your pain.

    Nathan - I think we've discussed this in the past - I guess it's because I've never worked contract in an hotel, but if I do not intervene in a situation I will be fired. Come to think of it, I'm working overnight tonight (my guy called in sick 25 minutes before his shift) with 2 contract Officers. We use this company to provide extra security when we have groups in the hotel. We have no written post orders with the company. They are expected to physically control a situation until I get there to take over.
    We have. Most states require written instructions, either contractual or post orders, as part of their security guard regulations. It prevents "fly by nights" and other "problems," such as the above.

    The contract company (or you) can basically make up at a later date (after something went wrong) what the guard's duties are.

    "We never told them to physically control the situation. Our guard's job is to deter and contact law enforcement."

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by james2go30
    yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.
    I've been working unarmed dealing with these things in hotels for 30 years now. I completely feel your pain.

    Nathan - I think we've discussed this in the past - I guess it's because I've never worked contract in an hotel, but if I do not intervene in a situation I will be fired. Come to think of it, I'm working overnight tonight (my guy called in sick 25 minutes before his shift) with 2 contract Officers. We use this company to provide extra security when we have groups in the hotel. We have no written post orders with the company. They are expected to physically control a situation until I get there to take over.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by james2go30
    yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.
    You're required to confront people? (remove transients from property, etc...)

    That goes beyond the average guard's mission of "deter, observe, report." Do your post orders actually say you are to do this? If so, I can see the company being setup for a failure to train lawsuit (by you) if you are injured in any way by someone you are required to confront.

    If your written post orders say, "You are a visible deterrence, do not confront," then whoever told you to remove people is wrong. You go by what your written post orders say. Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • james2go30
    replied
    yea

    yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Find out what your post orders say about your presence. It sounds like, especially with the Guard Tour System, that you are there for observe and report only. Which means that you:

    1. Will not receive any weapons or restraints. You are not there to confront anyone, so "no one will attack you."

    2. Your primary purpose there is to detect problems and then summon police/fire/EMS. That's it. Now, you may be responsible for putting out fires (probably not), or handling basic first aid (maybe, good Samaritan's law protects you somewhat), but the simple fact that protecting things incurs liability to the company usually makes providers say "no confront, no protect, call 911 and leave."

    Something important to remember when running away is that if you leave your property, you're in violation of Chapter 493.

    Rock and a hard place in observe and report security in Florida.

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  • Mall Director
    replied
    Dont feel bad.. The site I am at now, was a "completely unarmed" site. No defensive tools at all....

    I changed that.. all it took was after four days of me being assigned there as the director, and getting my butt kick royally by a group of gang bangers, I was able to express the needs for defensive tools. After that, it didnt take much to get anything I needed! LOL!

    Leave a comment:

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