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Who all works on sites where you can't carry anything for defense...including batons.

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  • Who all works on sites where you can't carry anything for defense...including batons.

    On my site all I can carry on me while I do my patrols, enforce rules and regulations, handle incidents etc.is my flashlight, site keys, radio, cell phone, site cell phone, and the protrac wand. Nothing really on me can be used for defense. Have an ASP, but upon coming to this site was informed I could not carry it here. Anyone else on this site in a similar situation.

  • #2
    I can carry a baton but since we work in suit & ties, not uniforms you can't really carry one. I have one in the office & if I get a call for a fight or a motion detector going off on the banquet floor which is sealed when there are no banquets going on, I'll grab it & bring it with me. I'm looking into getting an ASP. In Canada anything else (pepper spray, Tasers etc are illegal).

    Speaking of Tasers. I understand they are the things that use compressed air to shoot darts that carry electricity to the suspect. What do you cal the contact devices that you have to touch the suspect with to discharge the electricity & are they still used?
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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    • #3
      Stun Guns - They are very effective.
      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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      • #4
        yea

        yea unfourtunately we can't carry tasers or stun guns...wouldn't want to anyweay unless someone trained me on it. However this site I am on I can't carry batons or spray either....kind nerve wrecking when I have to respond to some type of problem with any unit above the first floor.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by james2go30
          On my site all I can carry on me while I do my patrols, enforce rules and regulations, handle incidents etc.is my flashlight, site keys, radio, cell phone, site cell phone, and the protrac wand. Nothing really on me can be used for defense. Have an ASP, but upon coming to this site was informed I could not carry it here. Anyone else on this site in a similar situation.
          Heck I see many things that you carry that can be used in defense in a pinch. Get creative. At the hospital here we don't carry anything for defense either. We have one armed officer that carries a .38 and nothing else who works 40 hours a week and no more.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by HotelSecurity
            I can carry a baton but since we work in suit & ties, not uniforms you can't really carry one. I have one in the office & if I get a call for a fight or a motion detector going off on the banquet floor which is sealed when there are no banquets going on, I'll grab it & bring it with me. I'm looking into getting an ASP. In Canada anything else (pepper spray, Tasers etc are illegal).

            Speaking of Tasers. I understand they are the things that use compressed air to shoot darts that carry electricity to the suspect. What do you cal the contact devices that you have to touch the suspect with to discharge the electricity & are they still used?
            I while back I saw a shoulder holster for an ASP or similar baton. Can't remember where but that would be something to think about with the suit.

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            • #7
              Dont feel bad.. The site I am at now, was a "completely unarmed" site. No defensive tools at all....

              I changed that.. all it took was after four days of me being assigned there as the director, and getting my butt kick royally by a group of gang bangers, I was able to express the needs for defensive tools. After that, it didnt take much to get anything I needed! LOL!
              Deputy Sheriff

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              • #8
                Find out what your post orders say about your presence. It sounds like, especially with the Guard Tour System, that you are there for observe and report only. Which means that you:

                1. Will not receive any weapons or restraints. You are not there to confront anyone, so "no one will attack you."

                2. Your primary purpose there is to detect problems and then summon police/fire/EMS. That's it. Now, you may be responsible for putting out fires (probably not), or handling basic first aid (maybe, good Samaritan's law protects you somewhat), but the simple fact that protecting things incurs liability to the company usually makes providers say "no confront, no protect, call 911 and leave."

                Something important to remember when running away is that if you leave your property, you're in violation of Chapter 493.

                Rock and a hard place in observe and report security in Florida.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  yea

                  yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by james2go30
                    yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.
                    You're required to confront people? (remove transients from property, etc...)

                    That goes beyond the average guard's mission of "deter, observe, report." Do your post orders actually say you are to do this? If so, I can see the company being setup for a failure to train lawsuit (by you) if you are injured in any way by someone you are required to confront.

                    If your written post orders say, "You are a visible deterrence, do not confront," then whoever told you to remove people is wrong. You go by what your written post orders say. Period.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by james2go30
                      yea it just sucks having to respond to an a noise complaint or some kind of other complaint when you know these people are usually disorderly drunks...and they want us escort non guests from property and remove transients from property...I hate approaching these situations with little in the way of defense we have the protrac wand, it ain't but like 6, maybe 7 inches, and that would put me way too close to someone, closer then I like.
                      I've been working unarmed dealing with these things in hotels for 30 years now. I completely feel your pain.

                      Nathan - I think we've discussed this in the past - I guess it's because I've never worked contract in an hotel, but if I do not intervene in a situation I will be fired. Come to think of it, I'm working overnight tonight (my guy called in sick 25 minutes before his shift) with 2 contract Officers. We use this company to provide extra security when we have groups in the hotel. We have no written post orders with the company. They are expected to physically control a situation until I get there to take over.
                      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                        I've been working unarmed dealing with these things in hotels for 30 years now. I completely feel your pain.

                        Nathan - I think we've discussed this in the past - I guess it's because I've never worked contract in an hotel, but if I do not intervene in a situation I will be fired. Come to think of it, I'm working overnight tonight (my guy called in sick 25 minutes before his shift) with 2 contract Officers. We use this company to provide extra security when we have groups in the hotel. We have no written post orders with the company. They are expected to physically control a situation until I get there to take over.
                        We have. Most states require written instructions, either contractual or post orders, as part of their security guard regulations. It prevents "fly by nights" and other "problems," such as the above.

                        The contract company (or you) can basically make up at a later date (after something went wrong) what the guard's duties are.

                        "We never told them to physically control the situation. Our guard's job is to deter and contact law enforcement."
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                        • #13
                          Actually

                          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                          You're required to confront people? (remove transients from property, etc...)

                          That goes beyond the average guard's mission of "deter, observe, report." Do your post orders actually say you are to do this? If so, I can see the company being setup for a failure to train lawsuit (by you) if you are injured in any way by someone you are required to confront.

                          If your written post orders say, "You are a visible deterrence, do not confront," then whoever told you to remove people is wrong. You go by what your written post orders say. Period.
                          No orders here written or otherwise say to just observe and record...In the rules of this property we are to remove tresspassers, transients etc. The only thing say is if it gets too bad grab your radio and have f/d call police

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by james2go30
                            No orders here written or otherwise say to just observe and record...In the rules of this property we are to remove tresspassers, transients etc. The only thing say is if it gets too bad grab your radio and have f/d call police
                            Let me get this straight. Your post orders state that you are to remove trespassers, etc... ANd you haven't been given tools or training to do that? Wow. Like I said, if you're hurt, you own them.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              yup

                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              Let me get this straight. Your post orders state that you are to remove trespassers, etc... ANd you haven't been given tools or training to do that? Wow. Like I said, if you're hurt, you own them.
                              WE remove tresspassers, skateborders are my least fav...as they travel in packs, transients, respond to units for any kind of complaint knowing it could be bad situation, handle evictions etc., etc.,...the head guy over security on all the properties managed by the company that contracts us says the sight of a baton may scare our guests and does see them as appropriate.

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