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  • Echos13
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Change493.org is trying to get the state to allow yellow/green for security. They think, unfortunately, that its prohibited for anybody else to use yellow/green, but its not. Its just that Chapter 493 prohibits security personnel from using any color but yellow.

    If you weren't licensed, you could use yellow/white/green/purple all you wanted. On Private Property, of course. Only a licensed security company may operate lights on public streets.
    I think it would be nice to be distinguished from a tow truck or street sweeper in regards to lights. Granted, we are not LEOs. But then we do get pretty close to doing things that require us some form of high visibility and recognition. Before the state (Florida) decided to assign green as a command post designation color a lot of security firms used green and yellow. A few of the Debartolo Malls used all green Jet Sonics and Aerodynes on their patrol vehicles. I recall a few of the fancy Hotels on Space Coast Highway and the Disney areas used green. Our Ford Escapes and Jeeps run all amber, which is Ok I guess. But the areas where we are. So does DOT, Road Rangers, tow trucks, contractors, Escort vehicles, well; you get the idea.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Change493.org is trying to get the state to allow yellow/green for security. They think, unfortunately, that its prohibited for anybody else to use yellow/green, but its not. Its just that Chapter 493 prohibits security personnel from using any color but yellow.

    If you weren't licensed, you could use yellow/white/green/purple all you wanted. On Private Property, of course. Only a licensed security company may operate lights on public streets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mall Director
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    As I've said before, the easiest way to justify contacting any person on your property is not for speed enforcement, or any "LE like activity." You are stopping them to determine the legitimacy of their presence on private property, or, you are stopping them to advise them they are no longer welcome on the property.

    This is the only justification you need to stop someone on foot, on bike, in a vehicle, etc. You are an agent of the owner. You have control over who is on your property by virtue of owner's rights.
    Ahh, again, stated so well!

    Bright green huh? Hmmm, I like it.. just think I might feel christmas like if I were to ever go with it though! LOL!

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  • Knight Watch
    replied
    Green

    Originally posted by Mall Director
    Yeah, the green thing still wiggs me out! LOL! I find it very interesting! I am attracted to bright shiney things.. what can I say! LOL!

    lol

    They are bright and shiney and a very nice shade of greenand we are SEEN that is for sure

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    As I've said before, the easiest way to justify contacting any person on your property is not for speed enforcement, or any "LE like activity." You are stopping them to determine the legitimacy of their presence on private property, or, you are stopping them to advise them they are no longer welcome on the property.

    This is the only justification you need to stop someone on foot, on bike, in a vehicle, etc. You are an agent of the owner. You have control over who is on your property by virtue of owner's rights.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mall Director
    replied
    Originally posted by Knight Watch
    we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


    kw
    Yeah, the green thing still wiggs me out! LOL! I find it very interesting! I am attracted to bright shiney things.. what can I say! LOL!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mall Director
    replied
    Originally posted by Bridgegate
    You can quote me as you wish, MD...

    Something to keep in mind regarding traffic issues... Depending on your state statutes, most areas consider a traffic stop to be a form of a 'detainment'. Particularly if you take posession of the person's ID, even if it's only for a few minutes. (This applies to more than just traffic stops as well, even the local PD has been coming under fire for it recently... Lately the trend is to have them hold the ID out for you to read/copy from, so it's never actually IN your posession... But I digress)

    So in short, in order to keep yourself out of trouble, traffic stops should ONLY be done by Officers who have received proper training on how to perform them, and ONLY when you firmly believe that you can justify detaining the person. In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

    As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.
    You are very right! We did get some course instruction on defensive driving out of a certifiable agency, but as you said, you have to CYA.

    We dont stop anyone for the "going over the posted limit" such as the speed limit is 15mph, and then we observe someone going 40mph. We let it go. What we are more interested in, are the delightful drivers, that seem to believe we are a drag or drift course. We wait for the subject to pile up the unsafe actions, then contact them.

    We are seeing what we can do to try a new avenue, such as booting. PD is even backing me on this one, which is nice. With the booting, we would wait for the subject to enter property, act stupid, then go inside.. While inside, their car would get booted, an on the boot would be a contact number. Once the subject calls, we go out and issue a trespass warning order.. Saves having to put someone on the vehicle until owner returns. We will see how this goes!

    Leave a comment:


  • Charger
    replied
    Originally posted by BHR Lawson
    At 3am, you can probably justify someone has no need to be in the parking lot anyway. You could probably stop someone for the speed infraction in my eyes. You can detain them to enforce the speed zone by either issuing a warning or trespass warning. Both the 3am and 5pm stops you have listed I think give enough probable cause to stop the violator.
    Possibly. It would depend on individual situations. At the mall I was working at where I took those examples from, we had a 24-hour grocery store on the front of the mall, so there were still lots of people around. The issues arose when vehicles decided to sneak off into other parts of the property.

    Overall though, the point I was trying to make, is that traffic stops can be construed as a detainment. So don't do it unless you can justify the stop, and (if necessary) articulate your justification in court later on, including HOW you knew that the subject was speeding, as it's unlikely a mall security department will be running radar.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    Originally posted by Bridgegate

    In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

    As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.
    At 3am, you can probably justify someone has no need to be in the parking lot anyway. You could probably stop someone for the speed infraction in my eyes. You can detain them to enforce the speed zone by either issuing a warning or trespass warning. Both the 3am and 5pm stops you have listed I think give enough probable cause to stop the violator.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Knight Watch
    we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


    kw
    This is a perfect example of, "Since you are on private property, traffic rules do not apply." In WI, they like to run red/red up here. On private property only, of course, since the law saying only Emergency Vehicles can have red states, "while on public roads or highways."

    Florida makes SURE that you can't have any color but Amber, on public or private property. It also says that only a licensed security company can run amber (for any reason they feel like) on public roads in residential, commercial, or industrial areas that they patrol. i.e. You have a homeowner's assocation with city streets, you can run amber all night long for no reason whatsoever. Everyone else has to have a reason to run them (emergency or hazard conditions.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Knight Watch
    replied
    reaction

    Originally posted by Mall Director
    On a real weird side note: Doesnt that seem strange to run Green? How do people respond to that?
    We get "What In the World" and that was from our local PD's and state police too. and all we only run them when standing by a accident or watching over shift change.

    needless to say we are SEEN

    Leave a comment:


  • Knight Watch
    replied
    we do

    Originally posted by Mall Director
    . Then, when I am shopping through our order catalog for our corporate, they also list green light bars.. Green? I wonder what states use those in the Security sector!
    we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


    kw

    Leave a comment:


  • Charger
    replied
    You can quote me as you wish, MD...

    Something to keep in mind regarding traffic issues... Depending on your state statutes, most areas consider a traffic stop to be a form of a 'detainment'. Particularly if you take posession of the person's ID, even if it's only for a few minutes. (This applies to more than just traffic stops as well, even the local PD has been coming under fire for it recently... Lately the trend is to have them hold the ID out for you to read/copy from, so it's never actually IN your posession... But I digress)

    So in short, in order to keep yourself out of trouble, traffic stops should ONLY be done by Officers who have received proper training on how to perform them, and ONLY when you firmly believe that you can justify detaining the person. In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

    As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mall Director
    replied
    Originally posted by Bridgegate
    Brings up an interesting conversation I had with a guy a few years back when I was doing mall security. We had a special event on site, including a bunch of kiddie rides in the parking lot. For safety reasons, a temporary chainlink fence had been erected, and the mall had hired a company to come do traffic control in the lot. I had a chance to talk to the owner for a while, who was a former LEO.

    He told me that he had only been running his company for a few years, (doing traffic control for construction sites, mostly), but had already had a few of his guys get hit by vehicles at night. The amber lights just weren't a deterrent for traffic to slow down. To remedy the problem, he installed amber/green lightbars on his trucks. He said the difference was astronomical, as people would slow down just because they were so confused about what was going on... "Who uses green lights?! Is that a cop?!" Oregon law allows green only for Fire Command Units and/or Hazmat vehicles. But he stated that he had never been hassled about it.

    Additionally, I have yet to go down and see for myself so I don't know if it's true, but a friend of mine told me that the Public Safety guys down at the University of Oregon have green/amber bars, as a play on the school colors. (Green & Gold)


    One that I'm kinda confused about is Purple lights. I can't remember which company it was, but I remember a couple years ago that Galls sold a line of lights that were available in red, blue, amber, green, white, and PURPLE. I've never seen one in use, and there's nothing in the OR driver's code about them. I talked to a local cop down there, and he told me that (at least in his department) they just consider it to be 'a shade of blue'. Anyone have any experience with these?
    May I quote you with some support to that.. We have our management getting on my case alot or the reckless and speeding issues in our lot. Now, because the signs are not "government errected", it can not be enforced by PD. It is private property.. So how do you get in contact with those you would like to ban, who are driving though your parking lot? Our little "whoopdee" has a mini light bar that is amber, and we have takedowns and alleys, as well as double spot lights. Its amazing when you "lite em up" how many people conceed, and pull over. (Between you, me, PD, and the wall... No one has to stop for aflashing yellow light.. but guess how many do? )!

    Ohh, and as for the rest.. PURPLE??? Back the kiddie ride up.. Where did I miss that one.. I was not aware of Purple even existing!

    Leave a comment:


  • Arrowslinger
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier

    The only firearm you could lawfully carry was a .38 caliber revolver, and only with a Class D and Class G license. You could carry a 12 gauge shotgun, if the state authorized it. The police cannot authorize it, it had to come from the Department of State - Division of Licensing.

    .
    Yep your right on the money

    Never knew that about the blue light, I emailed a friend who still works there asking about this. Also pointed him to this site and thread

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:

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