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  • #31
    You can quote me as you wish, MD...

    Something to keep in mind regarding traffic issues... Depending on your state statutes, most areas consider a traffic stop to be a form of a 'detainment'. Particularly if you take posession of the person's ID, even if it's only for a few minutes. (This applies to more than just traffic stops as well, even the local PD has been coming under fire for it recently... Lately the trend is to have them hold the ID out for you to read/copy from, so it's never actually IN your posession... But I digress)

    So in short, in order to keep yourself out of trouble, traffic stops should ONLY be done by Officers who have received proper training on how to perform them, and ONLY when you firmly believe that you can justify detaining the person. In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

    As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.
    Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
    Originally posted by ValleyOne
    BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
    Shoulda called in sick.
    Be safe!

    Comment


    • #32
      we do

      Originally posted by Mall Director
      . Then, when I am shopping through our order catalog for our corporate, they also list green light bars.. Green? I wonder what states use those in the Security sector!
      we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


      kw

      Comment


      • #33
        reaction

        Originally posted by Mall Director
        On a real weird side note: Doesnt that seem strange to run Green? How do people respond to that?
        We get "What In the World" and that was from our local PD's and state police too. and all we only run them when standing by a accident or watching over shift change.

        needless to say we are SEEN

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Knight Watch
          we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


          kw
          This is a perfect example of, "Since you are on private property, traffic rules do not apply." In WI, they like to run red/red up here. On private property only, of course, since the law saying only Emergency Vehicles can have red states, "while on public roads or highways."

          Florida makes SURE that you can't have any color but Amber, on public or private property. It also says that only a licensed security company can run amber (for any reason they feel like) on public roads in residential, commercial, or industrial areas that they patrol. i.e. You have a homeowner's assocation with city streets, you can run amber all night long for no reason whatsoever. Everyone else has to have a reason to run them (emergency or hazard conditions.)
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bridgegate

            In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

            As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.
            At 3am, you can probably justify someone has no need to be in the parking lot anyway. You could probably stop someone for the speed infraction in my eyes. You can detain them to enforce the speed zone by either issuing a warning or trespass warning. Both the 3am and 5pm stops you have listed I think give enough probable cause to stop the violator.
            "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
            "The Curve" 1998

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by BHR Lawson
              At 3am, you can probably justify someone has no need to be in the parking lot anyway. You could probably stop someone for the speed infraction in my eyes. You can detain them to enforce the speed zone by either issuing a warning or trespass warning. Both the 3am and 5pm stops you have listed I think give enough probable cause to stop the violator.
              Possibly. It would depend on individual situations. At the mall I was working at where I took those examples from, we had a 24-hour grocery store on the front of the mall, so there were still lots of people around. The issues arose when vehicles decided to sneak off into other parts of the property.

              Overall though, the point I was trying to make, is that traffic stops can be construed as a detainment. So don't do it unless you can justify the stop, and (if necessary) articulate your justification in court later on, including HOW you knew that the subject was speeding, as it's unlikely a mall security department will be running radar.
              Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
              Originally posted by ValleyOne
              BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
              Shoulda called in sick.
              Be safe!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Bridgegate
                You can quote me as you wish, MD...

                Something to keep in mind regarding traffic issues... Depending on your state statutes, most areas consider a traffic stop to be a form of a 'detainment'. Particularly if you take posession of the person's ID, even if it's only for a few minutes. (This applies to more than just traffic stops as well, even the local PD has been coming under fire for it recently... Lately the trend is to have them hold the ID out for you to read/copy from, so it's never actually IN your posession... But I digress)

                So in short, in order to keep yourself out of trouble, traffic stops should ONLY be done by Officers who have received proper training on how to perform them, and ONLY when you firmly believe that you can justify detaining the person. In other words, if your posted speed limit is 5, and you have someone going through an empty lot doing 25 mph at 3am... Good luck justifying a detainment. On the other hand, if it's 5pm and you have some jerk doing 30 through a pedestrian-rich area, that can be construed as careless/wreckless driving. (In most states, anyway)

                As with EVERYTHING in this job: C.Y.A.
                You are very right! We did get some course instruction on defensive driving out of a certifiable agency, but as you said, you have to CYA.

                We dont stop anyone for the "going over the posted limit" such as the speed limit is 15mph, and then we observe someone going 40mph. We let it go. What we are more interested in, are the delightful drivers, that seem to believe we are a drag or drift course. We wait for the subject to pile up the unsafe actions, then contact them.

                We are seeing what we can do to try a new avenue, such as booting. PD is even backing me on this one, which is nice. With the booting, we would wait for the subject to enter property, act stupid, then go inside.. While inside, their car would get booted, an on the boot would be a contact number. Once the subject calls, we go out and issue a trespass warning order.. Saves having to put someone on the vehicle until owner returns. We will see how this goes!
                Deputy Sheriff

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Knight Watch
                  we use green light bars on our patrol SUV's and I am in Illinois, but the local mall and other hospital use amber, and then there is a contract agency that uses green as well. check you local laws. just to be safe


                  kw
                  Yeah, the green thing still wiggs me out! LOL! I find it very interesting! I am attracted to bright shiney things.. what can I say! LOL!
                  Deputy Sheriff

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    As I've said before, the easiest way to justify contacting any person on your property is not for speed enforcement, or any "LE like activity." You are stopping them to determine the legitimacy of their presence on private property, or, you are stopping them to advise them they are no longer welcome on the property.

                    This is the only justification you need to stop someone on foot, on bike, in a vehicle, etc. You are an agent of the owner. You have control over who is on your property by virtue of owner's rights.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Green

                      Originally posted by Mall Director
                      Yeah, the green thing still wiggs me out! LOL! I find it very interesting! I am attracted to bright shiney things.. what can I say! LOL!

                      lol

                      They are bright and shiney and a very nice shade of greenand we are SEEN that is for sure

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        As I've said before, the easiest way to justify contacting any person on your property is not for speed enforcement, or any "LE like activity." You are stopping them to determine the legitimacy of their presence on private property, or, you are stopping them to advise them they are no longer welcome on the property.

                        This is the only justification you need to stop someone on foot, on bike, in a vehicle, etc. You are an agent of the owner. You have control over who is on your property by virtue of owner's rights.
                        Ahh, again, stated so well!

                        Bright green huh? Hmmm, I like it.. just think I might feel christmas like if I were to ever go with it though! LOL!
                        Deputy Sheriff

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Change493.org is trying to get the state to allow yellow/green for security. They think, unfortunately, that its prohibited for anybody else to use yellow/green, but its not. Its just that Chapter 493 prohibits security personnel from using any color but yellow.

                          If you weren't licensed, you could use yellow/white/green/purple all you wanted. On Private Property, of course. Only a licensed security company may operate lights on public streets.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                            Change493.org is trying to get the state to allow yellow/green for security. They think, unfortunately, that its prohibited for anybody else to use yellow/green, but its not. Its just that Chapter 493 prohibits security personnel from using any color but yellow.

                            If you weren't licensed, you could use yellow/white/green/purple all you wanted. On Private Property, of course. Only a licensed security company may operate lights on public streets.
                            I think it would be nice to be distinguished from a tow truck or street sweeper in regards to lights. Granted, we are not LEOs. But then we do get pretty close to doing things that require us some form of high visibility and recognition. Before the state (Florida) decided to assign green as a command post designation color a lot of security firms used green and yellow. A few of the Debartolo Malls used all green Jet Sonics and Aerodynes on their patrol vehicles. I recall a few of the fancy Hotels on Space Coast Highway and the Disney areas used green. Our Ford Escapes and Jeeps run all amber, which is Ok I guess. But the areas where we are. So does DOT, Road Rangers, tow trucks, contractors, Escort vehicles, well; you get the idea.
                            My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

                            -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

                            -It's just a job kid deal with it

                            -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              That's the reason Will Holcomb gave, as well. Also, I can't find statute that says Green is reserved. Can someone else in 316 or 312?

                              Amusingly enough, I think it was made Amber only because security dared use different colors "than everyone else."
                              Some Kind of Commando Leader

                              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Too bad we can't use red/yellow. I guess yellow/white isn't too bad.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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