O.C. Review...

[ValleyOne]

OK, I just sat down and read all ten pages of this OC stuff and well; for some wierd reason my throat is a little itchy and my eyes are watering...

Anyone ever try or evaluate this stuff? <nudging Mall Director>

Mace Industries Pepper Gel Defense Spray

Sorry for the bump...

Mall Director, I fully realize your busy adjusting to your new schedule and such, but I was curious if this ever received one of your in depth evaluations?

[Dam Guard]

Maybe it is just some really good spray! I remember the last time I was sprayed I had a little discomfort the next day but didn't experience what you are describing. But, different people are affected differently. I remember one particular guy that was sprayed the same day I was skin began to peel a little bit two days after he was sprayed. My forehead was a little sore the next day but that was about all. Now, the hour or so after we were sprayed? I think you named it correctly, liquid hell! LOL! We were sprayed with a CS/OC product called Freeze Plus P. As N.A. Corbier says, it turns you into a drooling snot monster! LOL

[ff000525]

Hmmmmm, I wonder if maybe you are allergic to the oc? I say this because it really shouldn't have kept bothering you for that length of time. After that many hours your eyes shouldn't have been still swollen. Did you rub them after you were sprayed? It sounds like you are issued a decent spray .
Now you know the difference between a direct hit in the face and just a little blow back . By the way, are you issued the 5.5% spray or the OC/CS spray? I ask because OC/CS was much more effective on me than just OC was.

Actually, everyone in the class were still feeling the effects this morning when class started. I woke up with my ears burning and had a little relapse in the shower (wasn't too bad). My eyelids are still a little swollen over 30 hours later and 3 washings (with baby shampoo). Oh well. To answer the spray question, CS is not allowed in WI. So I carry either OC foam (by DefTec) or FOX at work in MK III size.

[Dam Guard]

Hmmmmm, I wonder if maybe you are allergic to the oc? I say this because it really shouldn't have kept bothering you for that length of time. After that many hours your eyes shouldn't have been still swollen. Did you rub them after you were sprayed? It sounds like you are issued a decent spray .
Now you know the difference between a direct hit in the face and just a little blow back . By the way, are you issued the 5.5% spray or the OC/CS spray? I ask because OC/CS was much more effective on me than just OC was.

[ff000525]

Took a hit

of OC today in my DAAT class so I figured I'd share it here instead of starting a new thread. I was fortunate to take a 1-2 sec burst of a little known OC distributed by ETGI out of Milwaukee, WI. The link to the type of OC I was hit with is http://shotgunstream.etgi.us/asp/5.5oc.asp just for reference. Well, let me start off my description of this by saying that it was liquid HELL. I was sprayed at 11:45AM and it is now 8:23PM and my eyes are still swollen and my left ear still burns a little. Upon being sprayed by my partner, my eyes almost instantly swelled shut and the pain was enough that I forgot that I needed to verbalize while I was doing bag work. The effect on my breathing was minimal for the first few minutes, but I could feel a little tightness in my chest while I was attempting to apply handcuffs properly. It definetly took the fight out of me and if it wasn't required to throw elbows and knees and then handcuff to pass this course, I would've sat down and cried (not really, because that wouldn't have helped). The decon time for this OC was actually very, very long. The intense burning lasted over an hour, and it took just as long for me to be able to open my eyes fully. Many different brands of decon wipes had absolutely no effect, nor did Baby Shampoo. The only thing that helped a little bit was sitting in the snow and pressing snowballs against my face and eyelids, but this was just a temp help that numbed up the nerve endings and the pain came back as soon as the numbing wore off. One thing that helped a little was that I was one of the few students that insisted on flushing my eyes for a long period of time (20 minutes at least). Like I said before, it took me over a hour to be able to fully open my eyes, some of the students were still having problems 2 and 2 1/2 hours later. All in all, it was a pretty painful experience, but a good one at that. The OC brand we used was an effective mix that delivered a tight stream of OC that was painful almost on contact. The only thing I didn't appreciate was the long decon time, but I have never been sprayed with anything else so I guess I can't complain ( I have had a secondary exposure to FOX labs and a minimal direct exposure to Vexor though).

[ValleyOne]

OK, I just sat down and read all ten pages of this OC stuff and well; for some wierd reason my throat is a little itchy and my eyes are watering...

Anyone ever try or evaluate this stuff? <nudging Mall Director>

Mace Industries Pepper Gel Defense Spray

[Mall Director]

I am sorry I havent gotten back as quickly as I usually do.. I will get that for you asap!

[Doc757]

OC, particularly foam, has a general expiration date of 4 years after manufactoring.

The expiration of OC, is not so much the validity of the products heat, but the seal on the container. Remember with foam, to shake it up every month at a minimum, and it does help the rubber seal to keep it turned upside down as often as possible. If you have never used the can, it will last even longer, as no contents have evacuated through the release valve, causing any blockage of the valve closing.

What brand, lot number do you have?

federal laboratories inc. mfg 2000 lot# pf10-022
misc numbers below that 3603 PF4

for the most part - this is it http://www.defense-technology.com/pr....aspx?pid=5046
only, older, way older

[Mall Director]

OC, particularly foam, has a general expiration date of 4 years after manufactoring.

The expiration of OC, is not so much the validity of the products heat, but the seal on the container. Remember with foam, to shake it up every month at a minimum, and it does help the rubber seal to keep it turned upside down as often as possible. If you have never used the can, it will last even longer, as no contents have evacuated through the release valve, causing any blockage of the valve closing.

What brand, lot number do you have?

[Doc757]

Does it Expire?

I was issued a can of foam that doesnt contain a exp date on it, does this crap expire?

Been hit with the fogger, God dang it works.

and yes that shyt on my face is OC

[Mall Director]

LOL.. Thats pretty funny!!!

[fatalflaw]

But everyone agrees.. You visit a mall, the fellow next to you at the food table acts up and goes insane, the last thing your really want is to feel like your Kung pow chicken.. extra spicey, from your neighbor getting hosed! LOL!

Chickety China da Chinese Chicken, have some OC and your face starts trippin *sings along*

[Mall Director]

Cone does saturate more.. The effectiveness rate is the same, but its the contact area of contamination that differs..

Foam and Fogger are not the most ideal for saturation. Stream is great for crappy environmental conditions, such as winds, gusts, rain, snow.. and so on, as it maintains a consistant pattern of contact even when outside factors change. Where Foam and Fogger, unlike Stream and Cone, are effected by outside conditions. A good gust and fogger will blow back on you, and a strong wind will knock your stream off your target.

I think we probably have the same meaning in mind when it comes to OC differentiation.. LOL..

I always suggest and highly recommend researching your area of operation, and what is suitable for your needs.. All these types work very well, and are just as effective as the next, but its design is based more on the needs of the carrier.

Taking for example, and outdoor operation, such as exterior patrols and stops, Cone and stream are ideal. You dont have to as concerned with your surroundings when saturating your subject, but you may also become contaminated yourself.

Foam is the ideal indoor type. Especially if your operation places you in the midsts of bystandards. You want to effect the subject only, and do not want to contaminate the area, just the subject. Foam will do exactly that, but its con is that if you leave outside, and effect the same use, and a gust or wind is present, you wil have compenation to account for.

Fogger is ideal for outdoor use, or cell extraction use. In outdoor settings, you want to effect a large group of subjects quickly, such as rioters and fights. Con, wind effects it, and you may be exposed yourself.

I have had many PD and general interest ask what we use, and when I say Foam, at first the reaction is the same, that of a negative opion.. until they realize that if we need to spray a subject, that there are others around that we dont want to have effected by the OC use. Now, we also carry a second can of Cone spray for outdoor situations. But everyone agrees.. You visit a mall, the fellow next to you at the food table acts up and goes insane, the last thing your really want is to feel like your Kung pow chicken.. extra spicey, from your neighbor getting hosed! LOL!

[SecTrainer]

I've tried and failed, unfortunately, to find the OCP study done awhile back (by the NIJ, I think) that showed that stream and fog OCP dispersal patterns were statistically much less effective than the cone pattern. However, I do very clearly remember the exact stats from the actual in-field (after-action) reports:

Stream/fog = 72.5% takedown rate
Cone = 90% takedown rate

I also remember the reason for the difference - the cone pattern has a much faster and much stronger inhalation effect than stream, fog (and also foam).

...I'll keep looking. My library has literally thousands of pages of research reports such as this one and yes, I'm w-a-a-a-y behind in my filing. In fact, I don't remember if I printed this one or just read it online.

[Mall Director]

LOL, yeah, we were trained to give it afterwards.. as an extra skills test that PD and LEOs have to do, since the class was with them.. It was strange being in a room full of LEO and being the only Security..

The concept behind why "after", is that many times you make an arrest, have to use OC, then complete any documentation afterwards, such as arrest reports and so on.. So this simulates the same tasked environment, and the student, gets to work through the challenge of having to complete their duties after exposure, since the world doesnt stop due to our being exposed and in pain.

I can get you a copy as well! This seems to be getting popular, the requests for the vid.. LOL