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  • NYPD vs NYSD

    I have been in business for almost 2 years, and I still get problems from the NYPD. they tell me they want NYCD's help, then they tell us they don't. I have certain standards I go by but they don't care. I also got yelled at cayse my NYSD fleet vehicles closely resemble NYPD vehicles, so I got them repainted. I still get taunted by the NYPD, they think that we try to do there job and that's not the case. NYSD(New York Surveillance Department)are a team of surveillance patrol officers, not cops.
    any ideas on how I can cool things down between NYPD and NYSD?

  • #2
    Well, you did tweak their noses a bit by the selection of your company name (I take it that your company is not really a "department", so calling yourself a "department", with the resulting abbreviation "NYSD" is a deliberate attempt to mimic "NYPD"). Also, the similar appearance of your vehicles, even if they are repainted now, did the same thing. If I called my company "Seattle Patrol Department" and ran around in cars looking like Seattle PD, I think I could expect some adverse reaction from the Seattle cops, too. If your uniforms also resemble NYPD uniforms, you only underscore the problem.

    Unfortunately, once you do that you're dead in the water with some cops because their opinion of you is already set in concrete. It's human nature to protect our cherished beliefs at all costs, even when we're wrong. So, we will "see" things that seems to support our beliefs, and ignore any evidence to the contrary.

    Ignorance is also a problem. Cops can certainly be as ignorant about the field of private security as any other citizen, and many of them are. They know only what the average citizen sees on TV with the stereotypical stupid guard, sleeping on duty while the crooks make off with the Hope diamond. Cops learn little or nothing about security in most basic cop academies, and they can get LE degrees - including graduate degrees - without taking a single course in the field of private security. If you don't believe me, ask the next cop you see to describe the most common causes of false alarms with microwave sensors, or the differences between Hollerith, magnetic stripe, Weigand and other forms of access cards.

    When I was a cop, I knew next to nothing at all about the field of security, although I hope I was never disrespectful toward security people and picked up some good information from them from time to time.

    As far as the other cops - those who are not threatened by you and have some understanding of what you do - the only thing you need to do is to conduct your business in a highly professional manner so that on a daily basis you present, and continually affirm, your commitment to excellence. Like dripping water that wears away stone, you will change some minds over time, but the key word is "time".

    Meanwhile, I would frankly seriously consider changing the name of my company to something that didn't include the word "Department", or the initials "NYSD", and if I needed to differentiate my uniforms from NYPD, I would do that also. It would make you look a lot less like a "wannabe".
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-31-2007, 11:57 PM.
    "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

    "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

    "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

    "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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    • #3
      In Australia we are supposed to have strict guidelines on the use of business names and images that may infer police or law enforcement agencies. Some companies use names such as NATIONAL SECURITY PROTECTION and at first glance people would assume they are a national agency for security. I recently overheard a story of a similar company flash a bagdge and call themselves National Security Agents. With so many different agencies operating in the USA there is always going to be some confusion over who does what unless it is clearly stated in signage and uniforms.

      I once had a small harbour cruise business when a known competitor copied my business name into a new advertising campaign. I fit back with direct marketing on his silly little name and on our next cruise had an extra 50 paying passengers who thought they booked with us. This was over $2k US profit for me all because of my marketing campaign. It is so easy to be confused and to assume that the person with that same sounding name is from XYZ Services and not ABC Services.
      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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      • #4
        The name thing can be a real issue. When I first read "NYPD vs NYSD" I immediately thought of NYPD vs. These guys.

        NYSD to me, is a clear play on "NYPD." I think names should sound official, but don't need to play on a public agency to get business. Out here (as Im sure other places get) we from time to time see "Fugitive Recovery Agents" who sport badges that look very close to the US Marshals Office. I repetitively have to explain to people that they are simply Bail enforcement, and dont actually have any Federal vested authority.
        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
        "The Curve" 1998

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        • #5
          Is your company NYSD or NYCD?

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          • #6
            NYCD, Inc. is the overall name of the business. NYSD stands for New York Surveillance Department. The other Commanders and I decided on the name New York Surveillance Department because there are other surveillance departments in other US cities. The name ''surveillance'' was chosen because the term ''surveillance'' has to do with watching or looking out for, it doesn't always mean to look at a camera. The way we set things up is simple.

            1.NYCD, Inc. is the the company as a whole. NYCD is made up of all the Commander N Chief Constables of every Surveillance Department in the US as well as other places.

            2. The surveillance Departments are the local patrol. NYCD, Inc. does private security, patrol, public safety, and private investigation work.

            the uniforms are green button up dress shirt and black tie, black dress pants, and black shoes. Our old shirt color was lite blue. Our badges are all black(yes they do make them in that color)and we use two way nextels for communication.

            I will post the history of NYCD, Inc. in a different thread.

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            • #7
              I can see only 2 positive outcomes to this 'can-o-worms' your company has opened up...

              1) Get a new operating business name

              2) Modify your existing 'tag' dropping the term department ie. New York Surveillance NYS OR C**** D***** - NY with 'surveillance division' underneath

              Why should you do so? well quite obviously out of respect for the NYPD and secondly (and most importantly) to foster a positive working relationship with them which is always a definite bonus in this industry

              Just a quick question though... if NYCD is comprised by many CnC Constables from the entire expanse of the US why is it's business name so limited ie. NY based? seems a little short sighted
              "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

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              • #8
                I agree with Lawson, having vehicles painted with NYSD on them in large print (which I suspect happened) could make the reasonable citizen to believe they are deputies of the NY Sheriff.

                Honestly, it sounds like an interesting gimmick, perhaps with other cities having their own. MSD, CSD, etc.

                That's great, and all, but for the main name of a "national" federation or association of "surveillance departments" to have NY in it, I too wonder why. Was the first agency in NY?
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Lawson is right on! Unfortunately, if you keep that name, you'll always have this problem.

                  Be Safe,

                  Hank
                  " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

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                  • #10
                    NYCD originally stood for New York Constable Department. It is based in New York, that's where the name originated from and since the company expanded all the CNCs decided to use just the acronym ''NYCD'' and add ''Inc.'' to it. The NYPD doesn't have a problem with the name, they just had a problem with the vehicle painting. Our cars are now mostly unmarked but a few have a two tone blue to them. if you still want more on the origin of NYCD, Inc. as well as copany names, I'll be posting that info under ''History of NYCD, Inc.''

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                    • #11
                      Sounds like you want to be a law enforement ageny. Or at least confused as one. The term constable usually refers to a law enforcement officer or person employed by the courts to do certain things. The name NYSD can also be easily confused as a law enforcement agency. You should not be mad at NYPD but your self. Change the name, change ur officers names and thatll help. Other then that time heals all wounds./ Remember you are in a city that doesnt like security officers to do much. I know this because my dad is a cop in NYC and he was shocked to hear that in AZ we can arrest and carry weapons, drive marked county cars etc.... So you will always have a hard time there.
                      Robert
                      Here endith the lesson

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                      • #12
                        I am just confused as to why you would mark a surveilence vehicle?
                        "A good deed’s like pissing yourself in dark pants. Warm feeling but no one notices." - Jacob Taylor

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                        • #13
                          I was wondering that myself.
                          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                          • #14
                            People are les likely to commit a crime in the presence of a uniformed officer or a marked vehicle. Only 15 percent of the surveillance units are marked.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arff312 View Post
                              Sounds like you want to be a law enforement ageny. Or at least confused as one. The term constable usually refers to a law enforcement officer or person employed by the courts to do certain things. The name NYSD can also be easily confused as a law enforcement agency. You should not be mad at NYPD but your self. Change the name, change ur officers names and thatll help. Other then that time heals all wounds./ Remember you are in a city that doesnt like security officers to do much. I know this because my dad is a cop in NYC and he was shocked to hear that in AZ we can arrest and carry weapons, drive marked county cars etc.... So you will always have a hard time there.
                              The word ''constable'' dates back to old english times. For example, ''lord high constable'' in old english times originally meant a high person of power if I'm not mistaken. We at NYCD, Inc. use the term constable for the high ranking officials. 1st. Commander N Chief Constable Valentino(myself), 2nd. Commander N Chief Constable Collins. There's also Assistants too, one of wich is Assistant Commander N Chief Constable Jon Butter.

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