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  • Black and White Security Car

    I own a security company here in Wisconsin and I have recently decided to mark a car (Graphics). There are no laws that limit the use of a black and white car but there are police departments in the area that have black and white. The jurisdiction that I mostly patrol in does not use black and white.

    I would like to know what everyone's thought is on marked black and white security cars.
    "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
    -Vince Lombardi

  • #2
    Originally posted by MRSE_S3 View Post
    I own a security company here in Wisconsin and I have recently decided to mark a car (Graphics). There are no laws that limit the use of a black and white car but there are police departments in the area that have black and white. The jurisdiction that I mostly patrol in does not use black and white.

    I would like to know what everyone's thought is on marked black and white security cars.
    My initial thought is that B&W probably wouldn't do much to enhance your relationship with cops - even those that don't drive them - because of the association in the public mind with police. In fact, I'd say you probably are thinking about this yourself or you wouldn't be asking the question. This does seem to be a "police prerogative" that they just don't like anyone to mess with.

    ...and, if your company grows you might find yourself working in jurisdictions where the police do drive black/whites. This will not be good.

    There are alternatives that might be as effective in many ways, but better from the above standpoint - such as dark navy/white, a very dark grey/white or very dark green/white. In daylight, these are almost black to the casual observer, and at night they're indistinguishable from black/white, but the important thing is that local cops won't be thinking "There he goes in his black-and-white" because they'll know it's not.

    Hope this makes sense - you can derive the "look" without actually implementing black-and-white, and without putting any local cops' noses out of joint.

    Incidentally, royal blue with gold lettering/shield/trim also makes a nice combination. I saw one while traveling through Idaho and thought it was a very snappy looker.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 09-23-2007, 09:07 PM.
    "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

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    • #3
      I've mentiopned these points before. The Montreal suburb of Westmount's By-law Rnforvement unit had black cars with white doors. They put red flashers on the roofs. There was nothing illegal but the police (who do not have black & white cars) complained that the cars looked too much like police cars. They "made them" take off the red flashers until they changed the vehicle colours to yellow with an orange stripe.

      In my borough of Montreal, Verdun, our By-law Enforcement unit called it'self Sécurité Publique (Public Security although Sécurité also means Safety). The police complained that the public would be confused so now they changed the signs on the vehicles to read Surveillance du Territoire. Again there was no law against them using Sécurité Publique but I guess in both situations you are better not to p*ss off the police!
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #4
        Wisconsin agencies are moving towards black and white to get away from "looking like security." Going with black and white will not help your firm's reputation with some police departments.

        If I remember correctly, Kenosha hates you for having red to the front. This would give them more incentive to find reasons to pull over your Kenosha employees when they're driving within Kenosha's jurisidiction.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
          My initial thought is that B&W probably wouldn't do much to enhance your relationship with cops - even those that don't drive them - because of the association in the public mind with police. In fact, I'd say you probably are thinking about this yourself or you wouldn't be asking the question. This does seem to be a "police prerogative" that they just don't like anyone to mess with.

          ...and, if your company grows you might find yourself working in jurisdictions where the police do drive black/whites. This will not be good.

          There are alternatives that might be as effective in many ways, but better from the above standpoint - such as dark navy/white, a very dark grey/white or very dark green/white. In daylight, these are almost black to the casual observer, and at night they're indistinguishable from black/white, but the important thing is that local cops won't be thinking "There he goes in his black-and-white" because they'll know it's not.

          Hope this makes sense - you can derive the "look" without actually implementing black-and-white, and without putting any local cops' noses out of joint.

          Incidentally, royal blue with gold lettering/shield/trim also makes a nice combination. I saw one while traveling through Idaho and thought it was a very snappy looker.
          As always, Sectrainer has raised some good points. There's a municipal department out here with the navy blue and white cars. Looks REALLLY good during the day. I think, I like the blue more than the black.
          "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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          • #6
            Navy blue & white. Like the RCMP?
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
              Wisconsin agencies are moving towards black and white to get away from "looking like security." Going with black and white will not help your firm's reputation with some police departments.

              If I remember correctly, Kenosha hates you for having red to the front. This would give them more incentive to find reasons to pull over your Kenosha employees when they're driving within Kenosha's jurisdiction.

              First of all Nathan, None of my cars have red to the front, not even mine. And Second, the retard that was driving through Kenosha had a reputation with the local PD for driving his CV around on a suspended license and found himself in trouble that way as well as having his red lights to the front. He also knows better as he was once associated with the police department as an explorer. I also have several high ranking friends at the Kenosha Police Department that know that I am not playing cop.

              When I took over from the previous owner the company was a mess and had no policies or procedures or a structured chain of command or a structure for that matter.

              The cowboys that you may have observed and poked fun at in the past are no more. And yes I am aware of the lengthy posts on this site about Metro Racine. I'm not sure if you noticed the change or not.

              You know the competition, (Sch**tt) and those people have sirens (that work) in all of their cars (with amber light bars) and I have advised the KPD of that fact. Granted that is not illegal until the first warm body guard sees fit to fly around town with his lights and siren on.

              I don't have red to the front and I don't have sirens in the cars either. My plan is to stand out and I would think that I would stand out. The only department that I am aware of in Kenosha County that has B&W cars is the Weatland Town Constable which is on the far west end of Kenosha County.

              Not as many departments in WI are going b&w as everybody thinks due to Ford having a 5 car minimum for the paint scheme.

              The other reason why I'm thinking about it is price. I can purchase a 2003 B&W for $5500 with around 65k on the odometer. The last black vehicle that I purchased was a 2003 CV for $6500 with 95k on the odometer. So there is a little method or motivation to my madness. I did speak with one local department Chief that said he didn't mind as long as the graphics did not match his.

              I do appreciate the input, and yes I am having doubts, just as I did with my supervisors wearing white shirts. I do need to stand out and after 6 years we need to mark a car and move marketing to a new level, because the local warm body security company has new cars and everybody knows who they are sirens and all.
              "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
              -Vince Lombardi

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              • #8
                Schmitt has new cars because their supervisors threatened to quit. They bought new cars to placate them. The manger of Schmitt was scared to death of me, two supervisors tried to get me hired on as a third.

                They actually had the old woman in the office refuse to give me an application the second they figured out who I was. The guy was afraid that I'd take his job because my resume looked cooler than his. I applied there in 2004 and was told to go apply to Kenosha Police, they don't hire armed guards.

                I've seen the MRSE cars with red to the front in Kenosha, its good that they're gone. I've seen KPP's "car," as well. That was used as hilarity.

                Honestly, I think that if the PD gets in a fit because supervisors are wearing white, that's their problem. I have never been able to find a Wi Admin Code or Statute stating that "security cannot wear the same color uniform as their home police agency." That's BS, plain and simple.

                Several Wisconsin agencies have been written up in the local rags about their new "black and white" color schemes being "beneficial to the community" because "everyone is driving white now."

                Maybe someone got bored and backed off, but several states were debating actually making black and white a "police only" color, much like Green and White is in Florida. (Only Sheriffs may have green and white cars. No kidding.)

                Its good that you actually defend your company, instead of rolling over. I've heard and seen nothing but horror stories from Schmitt. One of their supervisors was a friend of mine, and knows my ex. He swore up and down that he was a Special State Officer and this is why he was able to run around with sirens.

                He also was running around with OC and baton, without company or manufacturer training.

                I've noticed your new website. Its kinda bland, but it no longer screams "THE POPO!" This is good, in my opinion.

                You will find my posts on MRSE in the past. The idea of not having marked cars simply because unmarked cars "look like the police, which gives greater protection" is borderline criminal impersonation. I would take those cars and mark them the hell up, turn them into rolling billboards, and make bad people fear them, good people feel safe in their presence, and the police feel that competent people drive them.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                  they changed the vehicle colours to yellow with an orange stripe.
                  OMG

                  Commander: Why the hell isn't there a puking smiley?
                  ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                  Corbier's Commandos

                  Nemo me impune lacessit

                  Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

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                  • #10
                    MRSE,

                    I applaud your defense, it's one thing to come back with a calm level headed defense as opposed to a screaming match. (Had my speakers turned down just in case though LOL) I know I have been one to fly off the handle. LOL, I cannot count the number of times I have typed out a heated post, only to delete, retype it out, delete, retype. Then just say to hell with it, and ignore it for a few days...

                    Me personally, I despise black and whites always have. Funny thing is that I have no idea why, unless it is a direct corelation to my hatred of the state of California.

                    Anyhow, it took me a long time to warm up to the blue and whites though. A city nearby has used this color scheme for ages... Practically as long as I can remember.

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                    On the other hand I am IN FAVOR of having the word SECURITY in large enough letters that it is CLEARLY visible from any reasonable distance, but too large as to appear circus-ish.
                    Last edited by ValleyOne; 09-24-2007, 10:19 AM.
                    ~Super Ninja Sniper~
                    Corbier's Commandos

                    Nemo me impune lacessit

                    Grammical and Spelling errors may occur form time to time. Yoov bin worned

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Has everyone seen the "Geek Squad" VWs? Here in Ca they had to paint the doors black at the request of CHP. They said the B&W Beetles look to much like CHP cars!
                      In any case, if it is legal and the local cops don't mind, go for it. If there is the least bit of doubt, I am sure painting the doors only wouldn't be to expensive.
                      "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                      • #12
                        wtf is CHP driving if Beetles look like their cars?
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                        • #13
                          The city PD has just started transitioning from white cars to the traditional black and whites.

                          When the first one arrived you would not believe the editorials that were out there complaining of the new paint scheme. "Looked to much like police cars"!!!
                          SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                            Schmitt has new cars because their supervisors threatened to quit. They bought new cars to placate them. The manger of Schmitt was scared to death of me, two supervisors tried to get me hired on as a third.

                            They actually had the old woman in the office refuse to give me an application the second they figured out who I was. The guy was afraid that I'd take his job because my resume looked cooler than his. I applied there in 2004 and was told to go apply to Kenosha Police, they don't hire armed guards.

                            I've seen the MRSE cars with red to the front in Kenosha, its good that they're gone. I've seen KPP's "car," as well. That was used as hilarity.

                            Honestly, I think that if the PD gets in a fit because supervisors are wearing white, that's their problem. I have never been able to find a Wi Admin Code or Statute stating that "security cannot wear the same color uniform as their home police agency." That's BS, plain and simple.

                            Several Wisconsin agencies have been written up in the local rags about their new "black and white" color schemes being "beneficial to the community" because "everyone is driving white now."

                            Maybe someone got bored and backed off, but several states were debating actually making black and white a "police only" color, much like Green and White is in Florida. (Only Sheriffs may have green and white cars. No kidding.)

                            Its good that you actually defend your company, instead of rolling over. I've heard and seen nothing but horror stories from Schmitt. One of their supervisors was a friend of mine, and knows my ex. He swore up and down that he was a Special State Officer and this is why he was able to run around with sirens.

                            He also was running around with OC and baton, without company or manufacturer training.

                            I've noticed your new website. Its kinda bland, but it no longer screams "THE POPO!" This is good, in my opinion.

                            You will find my posts on MRSE in the past. The idea of not having marked cars simply because unmarked cars "look like the police, which gives greater protection" is borderline criminal impersonation. I would take those cars and mark them the hell up, turn them into rolling billboards, and make bad people fear them, good people feel safe in their presence, and the police feel that competent people drive them.

                            There is no such thing as a special state officer in Wisconsin. Also, there are no state officers that I know of that drive around in 1992 Ford Tauraus' with Schmitt Private Police on the door, amber light bars, and sirens.

                            And I get grief for my tag line on former police cruisers. I'm sure you're not the first person your buddy has told about the spcial state police thing either. Who's impersonating now?

                            I have strived to make improvments in this profession and give clients a quality trained security professional, and Schmitt puts out a warm body with no training, weapons that they are not trained on, a marked car that says Private Police on it with an amber light bar and siren. I have at least come up with standards that we follow for hiring quality employees. I also provide training to every employee on their equipment, including radio.

                            As for the phrase about unmarked police cars and being a deterrant I didn't come up with that, it was part of the old company, I sort of like it but have not come up with anything to replace it. You've seen my compitition and what they drive, that was sort of a, were better than the other guy type of thing.

                            Every time I even mention other security providers, when I pitch my company, I hear bad things about Schmitt to the point of people groaning. I do not bash them, I just say that we can offer them more for the same amout or slightly more and that includes a trained professinal with a gun.
                            "If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm."
                            -Vince Lombardi

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                            • #15
                              Eeewwww. Sorry. I don't like the blue.
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