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What can happen when you take chances in LP

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  • What can happen when you take chances in LP

    There are officers who take too many chances. Instead of seeing all the steps, they’d see one or two, and then they’d make the stop anyway. But eventually, your luck runs out on you.
    We had a girl who went into the fitting room to watch a couple of females try on items. While walking out, she noticed another girl in a fitting cubicle, next to theirs, place a dress into her shopping bag.
    Now, she thought she had something. When the girl came out, she followed her and when she exited the store, the officer arrested her.
    She took the girl to the booking office and, the whole time, the girl was asking, “What the hell is going on?” When they got into the office, she told the girl to remove the dress she just stole while in the fitting room. The girl of course asked, “What dress?”
    The officer reached into the bag and pulled out the dress she had seen the suspect place in the bag. Of course, the girl told her the dress belonged to her and that she was trying to match it to something else that she chose not to buy.
    The officer became angry and basically chewed the girl out for being a liar. The girl started crying and said she wanted to call her dad. However, the officer was unrelenting. She started to book her for the theft, and because of the price of the dress, it would be a felony.
    One of the LP managers walked by and saw this young girl crying, and although that was not uncommon, stopped into the booking office. The manager realized that, for some reason, this girl looked somewhat familiar.
    The girl was still pleading to call her father, and since she was a juvenile, we had to contact a parent. The manager asked the girl’s name and when she blurted it out, the manager almost fainted. She stopped the booking process and removed the officer from the room, leaving the girl alone for a few minutes.
    In the hallway, the manager asked if the agent had seen all the steps required in making the stop. The officer of course said yes, because even though she didn’t yet know why, she was smart enough to know her job was in danger.
    The manager went back into the booking room alone. After a few minutes, the girl handed her the receipt for the dress from her purse. The officer watching through a two way mirror realized this was going to be a problem, but she still had no idea how large this problem was about to become. The manager exited the booking room to give the girl privacy to contact her father.
    The manager looked at the officer and said, “Not only does the dress belong to her, but to make matters worse, her father is the vice president of the company that owns all the stores our company has.”
    Months later, we were all sitting around clowning. Someone said, “Hey, remember so and so?” That’s what happens to you when you take chances. Months later, officers sit around and ask if anyone remembers you.
    "Observe & Report" Behind the Scenes with Security, in Their Own Words.
    www.Observeandreport.net
    www.observeandreport.blogspot.com

  • #2
    Definately a very interesting post to read. After reading it I realized that lots of things related to some stuff that I'd seen in my previous job....
    It's a miracle that during my time there we only had that 1 "bad stop." Looking back, so many things were ignored and I know that most of the other LP's, or even the 1st LPM probably didn't see just how close they'd come to being a part of the "remember so-and-so" group!

    Taking chances just isn't worth losing a job over. And if your post doesn't hit home....I don't know what else would. Again, an excellent post and thanks for the read!
    "Life In Every Breath"

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    • #3
      I tried to take zero chances and had two stops for the year so far. I'm having to push my luck a little because I moved to a different store again, and the lifters there all run or fight. First one I stopped ran like hell.
      Top Flight

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      • #4
        If you took 'zero chances' and still have have two bad stops this year - I suggest you are not following the "6 steps" which are recognized as the industry standard. Here's a link for you. Following the steps reduces your chances of a bad stop. Of course, probable cause trumps the six steps in Court.
        Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
        Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

        Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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        • #5
          Curt, I think he meant that he takes zero chances, and as a result has only made 2 stops so far this year.
          "I don't do judgment. Just retrieval."

          "The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it."

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          • #6
            Yes, that's what I got out of it. Liteyouup says he's "having to push my luck a little" - that tells me he's skipping steps. But then, I don't know if the company he works for has a written policy/procedure manual for making apprehinsions. He may of been left to wing it on his own.


            I stand corected - I see on 2/25 he posted that he worked for KMart.
            Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
            Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

            Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
              Yes, that's what I got out of it. Liteyouup says he's "having to push my luck a little" - that tells me he's skipping steps. But then, I don't know if the company he works for has a written policy/procedure manual for making apprehinsions. He may of been left to wing it on his own.


              I stand corected - I see on 2/25 he posted that he worked for KMart.
              Curt, there are far too many organizations who have either no written policies and or procedures or poorly written ones. I have asked on more than one occasion, "Your master copy does not reflect a "chop" (coordination) by legal affairs." One response took me aback, "Our legal office said they couldn't be bothered." That reflects badly on the corporate mentality.
              My escort told me with a straight face when customers were offended by the action or actions of an employee, the customer was satisfied with employee dismissal. All of that was included in the written report. Needlless to say, I had to fight to get my fee especially after the report was reviewed by the "headshed.
              Enjoy the day,
              Bill

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              • #8
                Bill - I'm continually amazed by the number of retailers that have written P&P but fail to enforce even the most rudimentary policies. As far as getting paid -I charge and work off of a retainer. Yet I see small store operators that have their ducks in a row.

                As far as getting paid; I recently had an attorney who wanted to defray my billing until he was paid from a court case that had yet to go to trial. No thanks.
                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                Comment


                • #9
                  Regardless of whom the suspect may be, you follow the same steps. My state LPM arrested the daughter of a prominent family who was price switching and had taken a silk scarf then do a Paris Hilton (she was not naked this time) and throw a spoilt brat tantrum (the woman was 29). She managed to contact the family lawyers and they sent someone over to the store. I got an urgent call so I ran to the store to interject. Inside the store, the lawyer kept demanding the release of the S/L and trying to push offers of payment. I walked in as he was waving around his Black AMEX card as my petite state LPM had him cornered and refused to back down.

                  It was a good test case as most people would have crumbled with the presence of a lawyer and when our legal department reviewed the matter for court, agreed that we had followed SOP's and treated the S/L with professional courtesy whilst she threatened us, our company, our jobs and even our welfare when she was being handcuffed and yelling about having all of us killed (extremely dumb thing to say with the police present).
                  "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                  • #10
                    I know if i was falsely accused ,and detained. I would never do business there again. It's embarrassing.
                    THE VIEWS EXPRESSED ON THIS WEBSITE/BLOG ARE MINE ALONE AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER.

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                    • #11
                      Excellent thread and great example of how cutting corners and skipping steps can come back to bite you in the bum....

                      This is especially a big problem with companies that operate on quotas, where performance is measured on the number of cases an investigator gets. There is huge pressure to perform and it's sometimes impossible to make the numbers without cutting corners (some months people just steal less). It's also interesting to note that those companies with quotas also do civil restitution...

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                      • #12
                        I follow the six steps as much as possible, but sometimes I didn't see them select it they just have it in their hand and I watch them conceal or they concealed in a blind spot to the camera, but I ran over and found the package and then followed them out. Or chased them "a little" past the sidewalk.

                        And I only had the one bad stop that I posted about in the other thread. New manager just said don't let it happen again and you'll be fine.
                        Top Flight

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                        • #13
                          Informative link. Any advice you have is always welcome.
                          Top Flight

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                          • #14
                            To quote a former GURU of mine I see a train crash ahead. Take it from someone who has been around LP too long apart from other areas in the industry, it is LP YES or LP NO - NEVER LP MAYBE !!! If in doubt, you need to let them walk out. As Curtis has posted before, retailers are passing out TENS of thousands of dollars in screw up fees where LP have not followed the rules and have become violent with an innocent person. Trust me, the retailer will hang your bum out to dry before they consider your skills in LP.

                            Sorry to be so harsh but the US is the land of the mighty lawsuit and people will take whatever they can get for free without working for it so when an opportunity like this falls into their lap they run with it to milk it for what it is worth.
                            "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shifty View Post
                              This is especially a big problem with companies that operate on quotas, where performance is measured on the number of cases an investigator gets. There is huge pressure to perform and it's sometimes impossible to make the numbers without cutting corners (some months people just steal less). It's also interesting to note that those companies with quotas also do civil restitution...
                              For the most part, I don't think the word "quota" is mentioned all that much. At least we never heard it used....but we knew that it was a huge part of the job. I've never been all that big on "competition" between LP's while I do think that it does make you strive to be a better LP. However, when your job is solely based on "stats" and doesn't include the other every-day things that an LP does, it definately puts added stress on us to perform and make things happen.

                              Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
                              To quote a former GURU of mine I see a train crash ahead. Take it from someone who has been around LP too long apart from other areas in the industry, it is LP YES or LP NO - NEVER LP MAYBE !!! If in doubt, you need to let them walk out. As Curtis has posted before, retailers are passing out TENS of thousands of dollars in screw up fees where LP have not followed the rules and have become violent with an innocent person. Trust me, the retailer will hang your bum out to dry before they consider your skills in LP.

                              Sorry to be so harsh but the US is the land of the mighty lawsuit and people will take whatever they can get for free without working for it so when an opportunity like this falls into their lap they run with it to milk it for what it is worth.
                              NRM, you're so right! That's 1 thing that I'll say for our former LPM. It was either you're 100% sure and have all the steps, or they walk...that simple. Just curious but would another reason for the retailer hanging us out to dry be because they think that they'll make up the difference in what they lose anyway....so they're not to concerned with LP's and/or our performance? I know they don't want lawsuits or anything, just a thought.....

                              I sometimes wonder if this is what the US is becoming known for, "lawsuits!" You see things "happen" and think to yourself, "are they just looking to sue and make some money?" People wonder why the cost of insurance is always going up...geez!
                              "Life In Every Breath"

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