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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLTpxgQl80M+

    What do you think of all these apprehensions? As security or loss prevention, do you think they handled these apprehensions properly? For mall security, do you get as involved as these mall security officers did in some of these clips, including mobile patrol and striking shoplifting suspects?

  • #2
    With the strikes you cant see what the suspects doing he could be biting or striking at the officers just because they are on the ground doesn't mean they are helpless or not resisting.
    "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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    • #3
      Agreed - at 1 store we had an S/L allege he was pursued by me when he ran into on coming traffic and was hit by a taxi. THANKFULLY I the external door PTZ was now on a wide angle and shows the S/L hitting my partner and running into the path of a taxi. He was charged with a $400.00 theft and was carted off to hospital but from the other side it looked like he was being chased as he looked back before running cross the road. We were 80 feet away from him when he was hit and it shows none of us moving.

      Again these only show 1 angle an do not show the other side of things which occur before or the audio of a person who is crying blue murder yet nothing is done to them in the arrest.
      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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      • #4
        I thought mall security was observe and report only. Maybe I am used to mall security not doing anything and when I see them doing something it appears out of the ordinary.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LPCap View Post
          I thought mall security was observe and report only. Maybe I am used to mall security not doing anything and when I see them doing something it appears out of the ordinary.
          Based on your statement - If Mall security has knowledge of a rape taking place in the Mall - they are just there to observe and report?
          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
            Based on your statement - If Mall security has knowledge of a rape taking place in the Mall - they are just there to observe and report?
            To many contract security firms, the answer is yes. Soundly, affirmatively, you will be terminated if you do not comprehend this, yes.

            Only trained law enforcement officers should stop the attack or apprehend the rapist.

            ^ This is the idea of many police officers, security managers, etc... ^

            (It is not mine.)
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
              Based on your statement - If Mall security has knowledge of a rape taking place in the Mall - they are just there to observe and report?
              Not a knock on mall security guys and gals, but when have you really seen them do anything? Countless videos are on youtube of mall fights and mall security just yelling out that they are calling the police. Having worked in malls, I have seen mall security enforcing tenant rules, handing out memos and mainly providing a visual deterant. Malls hire off duty police to deal with the rapes.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LPCap View Post
                Not a knock on mall security guys and gals, but when have you really seen them do anything? Countless videos are on youtube of mall fights and mall security just yelling out that they are calling the police. Having worked in malls, I have seen mall security enforcing tenant rules, handing out memos and mainly providing a visual deterant. Malls hire off duty police to deal with the rapes.
                I reviewed a case about 8-9 months ago where a rape in progress was being reported to Mall security and they did nothing to come to the aid of the victim. If I remember correctly the Court found in the affirmative of the victim. I don't remember how much money she received.

                'Malls hire off duty police to deal with the rapes'
                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                • #9
                  Of course the Courts found in the affirmative of the victim. I am not saying that Mall Security should just stand there and do nothing, I am saying that all mall security which I have come in contact with (Northern VA, DC, MD area) have been strictly observe and report only. Most of these major malls have mall security for visual effect (they carry nothing other than some keys and a radio, while wearing a large hat) and Mall PD (substation or off duty) to actually enforce laws/mall rules.

                  In factm you citing the case about the rape only proves my point, mall security generally does not get involved in anything which is why I made my original comment. In the several clips, you can see Mall Security jumping into the fray, striking suspects and pursuing them in their mall vehicle. This JCP must have a very close relationship with these mall officers.

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                  • #10
                    The point was the Court found the Mall negligent for not responding and doing something about the rape.
                    Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                    Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                    Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Curtis, from what I've heard, this whole concept of "transferring the liability of protecting the property to the police" by inviting them on with a substation is a growing trend.

                      This way, you can have your O&R minimum liability security guards with no equipment and no mandate to protect personnel. The police are supposedly going to protect the property (which is funny, since the police have no mandate to protect individual persons or property) to fulfill the liability of not having adequate protection.

                      Also, at the end of this video, an LPA wants his head blown off. How many times does it have to be told: Do not try to drag people out of their damn cars. If you're going to do this you should have a vest, be armed, be in some kind of uniform, and be trained in vehicle removals.

                      They may have a weapon in there. There may be a good Samaritan who is armed, and believes you to be a carjacker. The police could roll up.

                      You are looking for a beating if you play carjacker and don't scream "lawful authority" in your appearance and mannerisms while lawfully carjacking the suspect.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #12
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kc1...eature=related

                        ^ This is deterrence. You will be arrested, don't shop here. ^
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          N.A. - thanks for a decent video to watch - I enjoyed watching that segment.

                          Curtis - agree with the judge as (legal hat out again) the old `reasonable man principle` would fairly assume that the S/O's involved would have taken further steps (sorry don't know full details) and this could have been simply call 911, alerting security control, approaching the offender from a safe distance and yelling a verbal warning (100 feet MAY have been reasonable).

                          My experience with contract security has never been pleasant. You either have models (do nothing) or thugs but occasionally some decent staff. After a visiting a store, I finished at 2330 was informed that I had to meet at a central point with the carpark S/O's who escort you to your car after 2100. I found the location and walked past a S/O leaning against a wall as I walked up the ramp to my car. About 2 minutes later, I heard screams coming below and ran down the ramp to see a girl struggling with another person wanting her bag.

                          The person ran past the S/O (still leaning against the wall) as I checked on the girl. Upset but uninjured she told me she had asked to be escorted to her car and was told to she would be watched (120' away). She put in an injury claim through her employer which was approved with no admission of guilt but our legal dept agreed the failure of the S/O to provide `reasonable care` was grounds for liability by the mall and it's staff.
                          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
                            The point was the Court found the Mall negligent for not responding and doing something about the rape.
                            The point was that I have never run across mall security that did anything but observe and report. I have never seen mall security get involved in anchor store shoplift apprehensions. In fact, I have seen mall security directives which forbid it.

                            Onto a rape case at a mall.

                            Roe v. Spotsylvania Mall Co, US.FEDERAL.ca4


                            Jane Roe filed this tort action based on diversity jurisdiction against a shopping mall and its security company for injuries sustained as a result of her abduction and rape by a third party on the mall's premises. The district court granted summary judgment in favor of the mall and its security contractor, holding that under Virginia law the defendants had no duty to protect the plaintiff from the crimes of third parties. Because we conclude that, under Virginia law, the defendants did not assume a duty to protect Roe and did not otherwise have a "special relationship" duty to protect her, and therefore that the mall owed no duty to protect Roe from the criminal acts of third parties, we affirm.
                            http://vlex.com/vid/18183554

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kc1...eature=related

                              ^ This is deterrence. You will be arrested, don't shop here. ^
                              VERY Good video. Now that looks like a great place to work as a Security Officer. 100% conviction rate too?
                              Sweet.
                              Hospital Security Officer

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