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Laws of Arrest - too much for some people to understand ?

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  • Laws of Arrest - too much for some people to understand ?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=TvHCjA6shUM

    I had a customer who's disabled brother stole ice-cream. We could not arrest him as he was unable to be accountable for his actions.

    Unless the laws have changed globally - I would have assumed the USA laws would be similar. Hence why minors under the age of 10 cannot be arrested or held accountable for their actions.
    "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

  • #2
    Here in the states, the age is 6 years old. If they are less than 6, they can not form criminal intent. Period.

    Between 6 and 10 is another standard where intent can be formed, but it is a very heavy burden on the government to prove.
    Anything that hits the fan,
    Will not be evenly distributed.

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    • #3
      Being arrested and being held accountable are two separate issues. The caretakers of the suspect can often, and should, be held accountable. It does a disservice to your customers, the company and to the suspect to simply ignore the incident.
      Jerry
      http://personalprotectionconcepts.info

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      • #4
        Well, regardless the age, I will always stop the person and at least recover store product. Often, I'd also take the person someplace and at least run background checks or whatnot, and get their information. I arrest everyone. Whether or not I press charges is a different story.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nauticus View Post
          Well, regardless the age, I will always stop the person and at least recover store product. Often, I'd also take the person someplace and at least run background checks or whatnot, and get their information. I arrest everyone. Whether or not I press charges is a different story.
          I'm sure this just a play on words but, please explain.
          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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          • #6
            Thanks Curtis - I was going to ask the same thing.

            Here I can arrest you and wait for the police to attend (sometimes hours) and we will discuss the matter with the police. Often a fine and or court attendance notice is issued (now our state laws have changed to say a just a fine). Depending on the amount and nature of the theft and the SL's attitude, I have rung the police, completed a background check for warrants and may often issue a Trespass Notice. When the police attend it is THEIR decision not to take it further.
            "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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            • #7
              In Canada once you have arrest or detained or whatever you want to call it (Prevented the person from leaving or giving him the feeling that he was prevented from leaving) you have made an arrest. When a citizen makes an arrest you MUST turn them over to the police. It is up to the police to charge them or not. If you let them go before the police arrive you have committed a false arrest.
              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=TvHCjA6shUM

                I had a customer who's disabled brother stole ice-cream. We could not arrest him as he was unable to be accountable for his actions.

                Unless the laws have changed globally - I would have assumed the USA laws would be similar. Hence why minors under the age of 10 cannot be arrested or held accountable for their actions.

                Hmmm... interesting, Citizen's Arrest Legislation here (Crimes Act of Victoria 1958 s458) defines the circumstances for an arrest as any person at any time for any offence (additionally by ANY member of the public and/or Police)

                We don't have the lee-way to determine an individual's capacity of reasoning, this is conducted by the attending Police & Judicial system

                More about Section 458 @ Victorian Consolidated Legislation
                "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                  In Canada once you have arrest or detained or whatever you want to call it (Prevented the person from leaving or giving him the feeling that he was prevented from leaving) you have made an arrest. When a citizen makes an arrest you MUST turn them over to the police. It is up to the police to charge them or not. If you let them go before the police arrive you have committed a false arrest.
                  Not completely true.

                  At my place of work, when we arrest someone, yes. It's an arrest.

                  From that point, we have three options:
                  a) Press charges and receive a police presence.
                  b) Press charges and forward the information to the police without their presence.
                  c) Do not press charges, run a background check, and ban from the store.

                  This is how our entire company - which runs through half the country (Canada) - does things.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Security Consultant View Post
                    I'm sure this just a play on words but, please explain.
                    My company does not always press charges on the arrested person. Based on being a first time, price of the stolen item, and other circumstances, we don't press charges on all theft.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nauticus View Post
                      Not completely true.

                      At my place of work, when we arrest someone, yes. It's an arrest.

                      From that point, we have three options:
                      a) Press charges and receive a police presence.
                      b) Press charges and forward the information to the police without their presence.
                      c) Do not press charges, run a background check, and ban from the store.

                      This is how our entire company - which runs through half the country (Canada) - does things.
                      Really???

                      494. (1) Any one may arrest without warrant

                      (a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or

                      (b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes

                      (i) has committed a criminal offence, and

                      (ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

                      Arrest by owner, etc., of property
                      (2) Any one who is

                      (a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or

                      (b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,

                      may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

                      Delivery to peace officer
                      (3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.

                      R.S., c. C-34, s. 449; R.S., c. 2(2nd Supp.), s. 5.


                      How do you get around article 494 (3) of the Canadian Criminal Code????
                      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Same here Nauticus ............ I am in Sydney Australia and our systems are very similar. Mind you when you DO arrest someone, you then have a duty of care to ensure they are provided with any medical assistance (call an ambulance if need be) and to ensure they are safe from any harm (no phone book questioning).

                        We do have the same 3 criteria and sometimes a juvenille (10 - 13) MAY be cautioned by a manager (often done like an angry dad) and given a TP notice as well to serve a lesson.
                        "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nauticus View Post
                          My company does not always press charges on the arrested person. Based on being a first time, price of the stolen item, and other circumstances, we don't press charges on all theft.
                          Even in Canada, as in the U.S., a retailer has the right to stop and detain a "shoplifting suspect' to ask questions to acertain if they did steal. This is not an arrest. They may even be taken to an office or private space to determine this. If it is determined that they did not shoplift, they are immediately released. The arrest comes when they are told so by an agent of the retailer or police.
                          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Security Consultant View Post
                            Even in Canada, as in the U.S., a retailer has the right to stop and detain a "shoplifting suspect' to ask questions to acertain if they did steal. This is not an arrest. They may even be taken to an office or private space to determine this. If it is determined that they did not shoplift, they are immediately released. The arrest comes when they are told so by an agent of the retailer or police.
                            I've always been told that in Canada if you feel that you are not free to leave, you have in fact been arrested.
                            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                              I've always been told that in Canada if you feel that you are not free to leave, you have in fact been arrested.
                              Then how would you explain the ability of the police to stop and question someone? The person is not under arrest. Believe me that is a big misconception on both sides of the border.
                              Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                              Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                              Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                              Comment

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