How much for a 30 year old donut ?

[NRM_Oz]

Just thought I would show this link to an Armed Robbery in St Louis. A customer removed a 52 cent donut and placed it in his pocket (did not say what kind), when he exited the store he did not pay for it. He was approached by a sales person who asked him to pay for the item - he allegedly hit her (now assault) as she pursued him in her car call 911 I think it said. So with his priors his 52 cent donut he chucked on the ground could cost him 30 years. What a bloody crock !!!

All this for a 52 cent donut - are these sales people mentally challenged or what ? What idiot pursues someone for 52 cents (ok maybe 58 cents including tax). Don't these people learn that merchandise can be replaced but safety can't ?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/2F37838AFD546C9A8625736D000B589F?OpenDocument

In an unrelated matter, 1 night I was working a crap transport shift when the McDonalds Security guard chased 2 kids up into a shop front around 0200. Kids had taken $20.00 US of food and not paid for it when he chased them. 1 had a knife and was smacked with the SG's baton and as he was dealing with him the other picked up the knife as my partner and I stepped in. The kids ran off and the SG with his thick accent thanked us when we said he could have been stabbed and nothing is worth your life. He calmly said "I got the food, I am a good security guard" and this was a 200 yard chase from the store.

[CAPTAIN KOOLAID]

How much for a 30 year old donut ?

Don't care if it a penny i'm coming after ya. But thats me

[Nauticus]

Just thought I would show this link to an Armed Robbery in St Louis. A customer removed a 52 cent donut and placed it in his pocket (did not say what kind), when he exited the store he did not pay for it. He was approached by a sales person who asked him to pay for the item - he allegedly hit her (now assault) as she pursued him in her car call 911 I think it said. So with his priors his 52 cent donut he chucked on the ground could cost him 30 years. What a bloody crock !!!

All this for a 52 cent donut - are these sales people mentally challenged or what ? What idiot pursues someone for 52 cents (ok maybe 58 cents including tax). Don't these people learn that merchandise can be replaced but safety can't ?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/2F37838AFD546C9A8625736D000B589F?OpenDocument

In an unrelated matter, 1 night I was working a crap transport shift when the McDonalds Security guard chased 2 kids up into a shop front around 0200. Kids had taken $20.00 US of food and not paid for it when he chased them. 1 had a knife and was smacked with the SG's baton and as he was dealing with him the other picked up the knife as my partner and I stepped in. The kids ran off and the SG with his thick accent thanked us when we said he could have been stabbed and nothing is worth your life. He calmly said "I got the food, I am a good security guard" and this was a 200 yard chase from the store.

I see your point, but she allegedly chased in a vehicle, and evidently did not feel threatened. So this was a good chase. And the suspect got caught, and will serve time for his crimes. How is it bad?

[NRM_Oz]

Oh I have detained on dollar items and brought internals in for taking a drink ($2.00 without making payment and lying to me that she had paid for it). But the thing is, what she did was very dangerous and say if she ran over someone or killed someone along the way with her car (heaven forbid this would ever happen), so who is liable for the injury to the other parties ? For all my career I have tried to get it through the heads of retail staff and shop owners - don't pursue people because of the danger to yourself and to others.

Even `Special Ed LP Staff` do not get it when I have instructed them to NOT PURSUE. 1 guard I had working for a store at night, ran into a dark alley after an offender 50 feet from the store - he had 2 car loads of friends waiting for him to come running back and he got jumped. I know I did pursue people in the non-liabilities days but all this for a 52 cent donut ?

I will make another post about why I do not like how things fanned out in this case.

[NRM_Oz]

Ok just wanted to keep these seperate - about 3 years we had a covert cash in transit officer a female who's husband worked for a sub-sub contracting company. She walked out with about $40k US with the takings from a bar in a backpack and was king-hit by and offender with a set of knuckle-dusters who then robbed her of the money and ran off. She was badly injured around the face and consequently chased after the male, drew her weapon and fired through the side window and killed him. There was no further danger to her but I could guess it was the result of a mental situation where it was payback or revenge time.

She was not convicted of anything - not even discharging a firearm in a public place. The company running the show offers deals at about 40% of the cost of an armoured crew and does all this by subcontract. It is very low paid and is dangerous work as only $5k is all that is allowed per solo guard at anyone time. Whilst I am not comparing this with my earlier posting - I would hate to see someone injured or someone in this situation or someone go crazy and bring out a firearm.

I don't know what I would do because I have not been in this situation but I can tell you my training over and over and over again would want me to stop and take a look at the situation before I did anything. 52 cents and the offender went to a level unthought of. 52 cents and the sales person goes after him outside the store. What is the world coming to then ?

[SecTrainer]

52 cents and the sales person goes after him outside the store. What is the world coming to then ?

I can see you don't have all the facts. The thing is that this was a JELLY donut, not a plain one. So, it will be an act of compassion on the part of the court if he gets life instead of the death penalty, which is normally called for in jelly donut cases.

[NRM_Oz]

THANKS ALOT SECTRAINER !!!!!!!!!!!!

I am now cleaning coffee off my monitor reading your post .............. you sure know how to make a bloke laugh when he is trying to wake up on a weekend. I heard for a "bear claw" - it was death by firing squad ?

[SecTrainer]

THANKS ALOT SECTRAINER !!!!!!!!!!!!

I am now cleaning coffee off my monitor reading your post .............. you sure know how to make a bloke laugh when he is trying to wake up on a weekend. I heard for a "bear claw" - it was death by firing squad ?

For something as heinous as a bear claw heist, American courts are empowered to authorize torture and death. Execution by blender is carried out by the aggrieved pastry chef, who then bakes up frosted tarts out of the fiend's remains. By most standard recipes, one average fiend will yield about 8 dozen frosted fiend tarts, or simply "farts" as they are usually called. (Linguistic scholars still debate whether the "f" in farts - in this context, at least - was originally borrowed from "fiend" or "frosted". The arguments grow so heated at times that the linguists on each side of the question try to settle the issue by heaving farts at one another.)

The village holds a special holiday, school is dismissed, and the yummy farts are passed out to little children as special treats. By means of skits and songs, the wee ones are admonished not to grow up to be bear claw fiends, and thus to avoid the fate of ending up as farts themselves one day. It's all very fun and educational.

[redtoy92]

I see your point, but she allegedly chased in a vehicle, and evidently did not feel threatened. So this was a good chase. And the suspect got caught, and will serve time for his crimes. How is it bad?

Your joking right? He could of had a weapon in the car(he punched her so he was not afraid of getting dirty), they could have ran someone over. THey could have got in a accident killing someones mom or son etc. Even the lifter could have got killed. This was a VERY VERY VERY BAD IDEA. All those risks for a food item.

[N. A. Corbier]

When someone flees, apprehension becomes a tactical problem. Unfortunately, most people are not trained in solving tactical problems.

When I worked at Wal-Mart (As an electronics associate, no less), and one of the managers would grab me, they did it because I could recognize and solve the "tactical problem" of apprehending someone. Oh, and I could fill the forms out... Which I didn't mind, cause I'd always grab a coke and do the apprehension paperwork so they could go back to what they were doing.

It is insane how many times "average joes" in retail will go after a shoplifter without thinking about what they're doing. I witnessed one cart wrangler try to pull a guy out of a car. As I was screaming into the radio, "STOP, DO NOT GO NEAR THE CAR." He was uninjured, and of course the suspect got away, but we all know what could of happened.

There are some things, yes, that I would pull a person out of a car for. But not as an electronics associate at Wal-Mart. I did not have the mandate, the tools, the identifying clothing that would let people know I'm not a carjacker, nor the weapons to try that.

Apprehensions are fun, I admit, and Wal-Mart's (possibly changed) policy of using regular associates to "assist" the manager or LP associate in a difficult apprehension places people with no training in a mob mentality situation.

But, I was happy in that my AMs would listen to counsel and when I would say, "We either give up or take the guy down now, this is getting to dangerous," we either took him to the ground hard, or we walked away.

If I couldn't find a solution to the tactical problem, I suggested we stop. If I could, we executed my 'suggestion,' and were usually successful.

[NRM_Oz]

I also worked for a national electronics store and because of the merchandise, any male from 13 onwards would want to get their hands on the merchandise for someone or their car / house. A $40.00 DVD player was lifted and a 19 year old sales staffer chased the SL. 3 blocks and got it back as he knew where to go to see him off load it for 1/2 price behind a bar. I heard about it and went to see him to explain why it was dangerous and he understood why but being a local knew where to go for hot items to buy. It was the mentality of those who were encouraged to be men and chase after offenders.

But it goes to LP staff as well - where I once worked as the store LPM it was considered normal to pursue offenders for blocks and drag them back for an arrest. As I took over as LPM the older staff were told - you go 50 feet from the store and the pursuit is off due to liability and your safety. We once arrested a Cheese thief (yes he stole $250 US or so in gourmet pre-packed cheese) and when caught outside did the old "don't hit me or kick me MR LPO" routine - he was filthy too. As we got him to stand up he charged my partner knocking him over and ran through traffic and was clipped by a car. Thankfully he got up and ran off but our external cameras showed he was not pursued. If we had, we would have been held liable for his injuries and those of someone who was injured like seniors who may be knocked over.

[bpdblue]

I have to agree with the jelly donut factor, cause if it was a JELLY, the SL is going to hell-y.

[J_L]

Ok, a 50 cent donut..... I hear some of you saying yeah I go after them no matter what the value, and some saying there are safety issues. First off, it depends on your employer. An LP should never confuse his/her job with personal opinions on what is or is not acceptable in apprehending a suspect. What many LP's neglect to comprhend is that you as an LP must also protect your company from you.....yeah, wrap your head around that one once. If you work at a large retailer, and you think that the head honchos look at you and say, "He's our guy!" then I got news for you. Ready? Here it is.....we are all potential liabilities. Yeah crazy right?

We do the dirty work, don't let the dirty work do you.

[Chucky]

Well OZ I don't know how much your LEs appreciate the exquisite aroma of a warm fresh fried ball of pure fat stuffed with an equal amount of sugar filling accompanied by a large cup of caffeine and more sugar to ensure the prior gets to the heart faster. But us yanks would have shot her removed the donut from her cold dead hands and returned it to the warmth of the donut shop then checked her pulse and call 911 if needed.

Seriously though when the small town I grew up in needed a new cop shop a member of the selectmen committee in open meeting suggested that they save money and simply transfer the Police signs from the front lawn to the local donut shop because you have better luck finding a cop there. The Chief of Police wasn't amused.

Yummy or for our dyslexic friends ymmuY