Shoplifting Apprehension Video

[LPCap]

I came across this online:

http://www.truveo.com/?method=truveo...9368324&play=1

Very poor approach by the LP (there were several). It looks like it is at a JCP store.

What can be learned by this short clip? Obviously, the LP is proud of the actions or they would not post the clip.

[panther10758]

Does appear to be JCP and being somewhat familar with their polices these LP mishandled this incident. It appears from watching the video that Lp take an agressive approach to shoplifter. The JCP training requires an LPO to verbally ID him/hr self and make a statement like "excuse me sir/mam we seem to have a problem with some merchandise would you mind returning to the store with me so we may straighten it out?" Now if subject flees etc JCP has a hands on policy depending on circumstances. This video does not show a calm polite approach.

[JB diligence]

I'd be trying to jet too if I was confronted that way. Sure they may believe that he was shoplifting and most likely had proof, but that kind of approach is down right dangerous, both to the LPO's as well as other customers. I dont think the shoplifter would be looking or other people he could have run over in his escape. I think it would scream lawsuit had he hit a bystander in his escape. It's shoplifter apprehension not football.

JB

[panther10758]

JCP allows "hands on" in three circumstances

.subject becomes violent
.subject flees
.subject threatens to do either or both

In this video the subject has no chance to do any of the above as the LP rushes in and begins to manhandle subject. There are some serious training issues that need to be addressed here.

[LPGuy]

Upon first glance, the video looks bad. However, there are other things that need to be taken into consideration:

The shoplifting subject may already be known to these loss prevention officers as a fighter or someone known to flee. Perhaps there may have been a getaway vehicle parked nearby, hence the rushed approach. We also don't know what the shoplifter was taking. I've had people steal steak knife sets, and you better believe I was upon them before they had a chance to pull one out.

In addition, slow the video down and watch the approach several times. The first officer comes around the corner and the subject immediately stops and takes his left arm, which had been holding a large shopping bag over his left shoulder, and places the bag in between him and the officer. The officer appears to try to deflect the bag away from between them while sidestepping in the doorway, perhaps trying to block the suspect's exit. The suspect then drops the bag and begins to backpedal through the foyer. The officer reaches out to grab him and the suspect puts his hands up to fend the officer off, then runs out the door.

I'm sure that the suspect was aware the whole time that these were loss prevention officers attempting to apprehend him, not random guys trying to mug him. We can't know all the variables behind this incident, so I think it's inappropriate to say it was a bad approach.

[LPCap]

They jumped out from behind the door as soon as they were radioed that he exited. Shoplifters generally expect someone to approach them from behind, if you are in front, it is very easy. They should have walked up, got his feet stopped and asked him to come back. If he ran, well you have three LP.

[panther10758]

No matter how much I slow down video these guys rush in and manhandle subject. Nowhere in the JCP Lp manual in this type of action encouraged. Where hands on is allowed its after a subject runs, fights or, threatens either or. Subject had no time for any of these.

[LPGuy]

They jumped out from behind the door as soon as they were radioed that he exited.

No problem there.

Shoplifters generally expect someone so approach them from behind,

Negative. That's a very poor approach in regards to officer safety. While approaching from behind, you do not have a view of their hands and you allow them an avenue to escape.

They should have walked up, got his feet stopped and asked him to come back. If he ran, well you have three LP.

That's pretty much what I saw. The officer quickly approached from the front, the suspect immediately moved into a flight posture and attempted to fend the officer off with his hands, the officer sidestepped in the door to block the suspect's exit, and the suspect ran.

[LPGuy]

No matter how much I slow down video these guys rush in and manhandle subject.

Watch it again? I watched it slowly several times and it's pretty clear.

Nowhere in the JCP Lp manual in this type of action encouraged.

The "manual" doesn't tell us what exactly happened in this incident. This was an extremely short videoclip.

Where hands on is allowed its after a subject runs, fights or, threatens either or. Subject had no time for any of these.

Had no time? He immediately went into a flight posture, put his hands in a defensive stance when the officer approached, then ran. We don't know the history on this guy; for all we know he could be a repeat offender who is known to run, fight, or carry a weapon. We also don't know what happened before the video clip or even what the subject said. I have approached a shoplift subject who, upon me badging and identifying myself, said, "If you touch me, I'll shoot you." I immediately grabbed her by the wrists and she started to fight. While she was struggling, I told her she would be face down on the pavement if she didn't comply, then I handcuffed her.

My point is, you cannot judge an extremely short video clip like this and believe that you know exactly what should and should not have happened. There are too many variables that may have affected this situation that we have no idea about. I don't generally see LP officers just randomly "manhandling" every shoplifter unless they want to be the defendants in multiple lawsuits.

[LPCap]

Read. Comprehend. Post.

Negative. That's a very poor approach in regards to officer safety. While approaching from behind, you do not have a view of their hands and you allow them an avenue to escape.

I SAID...Shoplifters generally think that they will be approached from the BACK...hence the reason they look over their shoulder and back into the store when they are leaving.

The video clearly shows the LP RUNNING up to the second set of doors. I have seen many times LP get hyped about an apprehension and when the camera room radios "He exited", the LP outside do one of two things.

#1 - they run up from behind the suspect
#2 - they run up in front of the suspect

In this case, they RAN up in front of the suspect and scared the **** outta him. The LP rushed the door and went hands on.

An apprehension like that one should have gone down with the LP approaching in a calm manner. The LP need to ACT LIKE THEY ARE A SHOPPER! They should ACT like they are walking into the store to do some shopping and calmly approach the guy.

Jumping from behind the building and startling someone is not the way to go.

[N. A. Corbier]

Honestly, I think that if that happened to me, at the minimum many people would be choking on OC... at maximum, someone would be dead. And it would not be me.

[LPCap]

My point is, you cannot judge an extremely short video clip like this and believe that you know exactly what should and should not have happened. There are too many variables that may have affected this situation that we have no idea about.

Correct. The video is short. But read the title - "Fight Club". These LP like to "fight". They get amped up. Nothing wrong with that, just not the smartest move(s).

I have approached a shoplift subject who, upon me badging and identifying myself, said, "If you touch me, I'll shoot you." I immediately grabbed her by the wrists and she started to fight. While she was struggling, I told her she would be face down on the pavement if she didn't comply, then I handcuffed her.

What would have happened if she shot you? Every training manual I have read (and I have read a ton) have said to disengage if they threaten violence. 99% of the time, you will get your perp, but is it worth getting shot for that Neiman Marcus shirt?

[LPCap]

Honestly, I think that if that happened to me, at the minimum many people would be choking on OC... at maximum, someone would be dead. And it would not be me.

Speaking from the shoplifters perspective. If three dudes just ran towards me as I was exited a building, I would be in the fight or flight mode.

Security/LP around the globe discourage initial contacts such as this because they get violent. If he was a repeat offender, call the PD or Mall Security of just get the merchandise back and a tag number.

[panther10758]

Its needless violence like this that forces some companies to go hands off.

[LPCap]

Here is what happens when you break company rules:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoid=4819415