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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynch Mob
    "Could you ask for permission to post the name of your store? My wife's birthday is coming up and she likes jewelry...me and the six kids will be right over to..."

    - SecTrainer
    You will now explain the bearing of your statement in reply to my post. You will do this, so that I understand why you are pasting non sequitors while quoting me.

    Kindly do not involve me in your jihads.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by LPGuy
    If you would have slowed down and read my post a bit more clearly, you'll see I didn't mention anything beyond simply handing the matter off to mall security or local law enforcement. I said LP should handle it, which would indicate that they should respond, and if needed, refer it to the proper authorities. Apprehensions should occur in certain circumstances, but in most cases it's probably best to let the other departments handle the situation.

    If you had slowed down and read my post a bit more clearly, you would have seen you were not named. The post was in response to several posted remarks!

    Leave a comment:


  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by panther10758
    When an LPO makes an arrest or detention of a subject not stealing he/she has now placed both him/herself and store is position to be lible for false arrest or other factors. LPO's are not trained in making sexual assault arrests! The easier solution is to knock on door wait for subjects to exit fitting room and while contacting mall Security and PD escort them from store. Then PD and/or Mall security can do their job! What happens to store when an LP makes such a stop? Process of detention and arrest can take an hour or more and what profit or benefit to store? None! While you deal with this situiation your store is being robbed! Let Mall Security and PD do their job an dlet LP do theirs! Its not Cops n Robbers its about protecting store assets!
    If you would have slowed down and read my post a bit more clearly, you'll see I didn't mention anything beyond simply handing the matter off to mall security or local law enforcement. I said LP should handle it, which would indicate that they should respond, and if needed, refer it to the proper authorities. Apprehensions should occur in certain circumstances, but in most cases it's probably best to let the other departments handle the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    When an LPO makes an arrest or detention of a subject not stealing he/she has now placed both him/herself and store is position to be lible for false arrest or other factors. LPO's are not trained in making sexual assault arrests! The easier solution is to knock on door wait for subjects to exit fitting room and while contacting mall Security and PD escort them from store. Then PD and/or Mall security can do their job! What happens to store when an LP makes such a stop? Process of detention and arrest can take an hour or more and what profit or benefit to store? None! While you deal with this situiation your store is being robbed! Let Mall Security and PD do their job an dlet LP do theirs! Its not Cops n Robbers its about protecting store assets!

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  • LPGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Security Consultant
    I think there is no difference between "security" and "loss prevention" in retail. It just depends on what a company wants to call the department that protects their assets. It's all the same.
    Originally posted by panther10758
    Personally I dont think LP should be acting outside of protecting store assets which includes merchandise, assocaites and customers. To detain these two could be problematic for the LPO and the store.
    You're exactly right, Security Consultant. And panther10758, yes, LP is to protect store assets and prevent loss. LP must therefore handle non-theft security and crime issues because allowing them to continue will harm the store, damage merchandise, and drive customers away.

    During my time in LP, we handled all security issues. Theft, car prowling, lewd conduct, loitering, medical issues, etc. On rare occassions we would hire a uniformed officer to handle outside issues but that was only during the occasional hire volume period when we needed the extra help. However, we would always utilize mall security to handle many of our outside issues, but we were always the first responder. As soon as mall security arrived, we let them take over and we got back to the store.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by LPCap
    I would say stores need a two fold LP/Security Department (stores like WM that is).

    Trained security officers (uniformed) and plainclothes LP (independant of the security officers).

    Security would act as well security for the store and the LP's would focus on shoplifters and internals. This of course if you were going this route.

    A common trend among WM's in my area is to hire off duty police officers on the weekends and for overnights. I have seen the billing for off duty officers and they would be better off having armed contract guards or unarmed. They could probably do it inhouse cheaper as well.
    They hire off duty police officers because the off duty police officers bring the agency's liability policy. Its "cheaper" for them to pawn all liability off on a law enforcement officer.

    In some districts, they simply hire Securitas. This provides visible deterrence without the liability exposure of law enforcement action.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Chadly
    Well, In Wisconsin, depending on how vocal the couple were, you might have have enough for Disorderly Conduct. (Nice Coverall Statute)

    At least getting the PD involved would also do the trick, as Im sure notification to parents would be made.
    This was Florida. There was no way I could of arrested the man, as he had not committed a felony in my presence. And before Bigdog comes running in with, "You can arrest for misdemeanor breaches of the peace..." That would require explaining to the Largo Police Department, and very few people knew that was possible in 2001.

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  • Chadly
    replied
    Well, In Wisconsin, depending on how vocal the couple were, you might have have enough for Disorderly Conduct. (Nice Coverall Statute)

    At least getting the PD involved would also do the trick, as Im sure notification to parents would be made.

    Leave a comment:


  • LPCap
    replied
    I would say stores need a two fold LP/Security Department (stores like WM that is).

    Trained security officers (uniformed) and plainclothes LP (independant of the security officers).

    Security would act as well security for the store and the LP's would focus on shoplifters and internals. This of course if you were going this route.

    A common trend among WM's in my area is to hire off duty police officers on the weekends and for overnights. I have seen the billing for off duty officers and they would be better off having armed contract guards or unarmed. They could probably do it inhouse cheaper as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynch Mob
    It comes down to what is the role of Loss Prevention? If a company wants their LP department to act as the police of the store and take steps to enforce state laws, then it makes sense to take the two law breakers into custody and call the police.

    If the role of LP is to protect assets, reduce losses and increase profits, then you give the two a warning about their actions and send them on their way. You don't waste time on horny teenagers when you could have someone on the other side of the store cleaning out your leather jackets.

    For me, I would never advise LP to act as the police of the store. I always advise to be business people and make smart business decisions.
    Its interesting, in that when the Wal-Mart I worked at in 2001 had a agitated man go basically bat... insane on an Assistant Manager, they called for LP. The LP associates showed up, and promptly went the other direction once they realized the unruly man was physically attacking the assistant manager.

    A general "security to..." call came out, and I decided to see what was going on since our store had no security personnel. After showing up, I decided that the man was attacking our AM, and needed to vacate the store. Seeing as how it was in the pharmacy area, I ... um... Well, I picked up a cane and used it to push-bar the guy out the emergency exit, then slammed it.

    When the AM asked the LP associates what the problem was, they specifically told him: We aren't trained to be security guards, nor does our DLPM want us to be, we just apprehend shoplifters and work internals.

    he AM went off on the LP associates as he was fully LP certified, and reminded them that they were there to work safety issues, such as "the crazy vietnam guy is trying to choke me to death." The again reiterated that they were not trained in physical confrontation and didn't know what to do, or if it was their job.

    Keep in mind, these guys were responsible for physically apprehending shoplifters and bringing them to the LP office. They were not authorized to carry handcuffs, however.

    While I got a ribbing for not "taking him into custody," it was acknowledged that the best course of action was to get the man away from the AM and out of the store. Popping him through a fire door was the only thing I could think of, since I didn't want start using the metal cane as a straight stick in landing blows, and I didn't want the guy to attack me.

    This is a good example of "who polices the store" and the expectations between management and LP.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynch Mob
    replied
    It comes down to what is the role of Loss Prevention? If a company wants their LP department to act as the police of the store and take steps to enforce state laws, then it makes sense to take the two law breakers into custody and call the police.

    If the role of LP is to protect assets, reduce losses and increase profits, then you give the two a warning about their actions and send them on their way. You don't waste time on horny teenagers when you could have someone on the other side of the store cleaning out your leather jackets.

    For me, I would never advise LP to act as the police of the store. I always advise to be business people and make smart business decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I'd give the kid a medal. The police response time for a call like that in Montreal would be at least an hour. If he could continue doing what you said he was doing for an hour, he shoud get a medal. (JUST KIDDING!)

    In the hotel we find it all the time. In stairways, on top of the washing machine in the laundromet etc etc. So far never that young. We simply send them back to their room.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Where I could agree with that point many retailers install policy that forbids what most of us would call security actions. thsi includes use of force, handcuffs weapons (like pepper spray) etc. The can be gray sometimes. However in this case (example) the line may be even greyer (I know not a word). If there is a detainment is LPO authorized to do so on stores behalf? Can store be held Civilly libel by kids, parents etc? Does store want to deal with this? No assets of store are being harmed yet a crime is being comitted. there are several concerns even though its clear the minors need to be stopped and need to leave store. In my view this is something that Mall Security (if Mall store) and/or Police should deal with. the correct course of action (in my view) is to knock on door announce yourself. Ask minors to get dressed (without openning door) and to leave the store. Now one could also request Mall Security or PD (if on scene) to make request as well.

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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    I think there is no difference between "security" and "loss prevention" in retail. It just depends on what a company wants to call the department that protects their assets. It's all the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Some things to consider is where is the line between Loss Prevention and Secuirty and Law Enforcement. Each have roles so where does the LP's role lay? Personally I dont think LP should be acting outside of protecting store assets which includes merchandise, assocaites and customers. To detain these two could be problematic for the LPO and the store.

    Leave a comment:

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