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Another Mall Shooting: 5 Killed

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  • #31
    Any current/former LEO's want to weigh in on this?
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mr. Security
      How much practice does the law require after a "citizen" gets a permit? Having a firefight involving armed citizens is not a reasurring situation in my mind, nor that of the police who responded, IMO.
      To renew your CPL in Michigan you have to "Completed at least three (3) hours of review of the pistol safety training course and has at least 1 hour of firing range time in the 6 months immediately preceding the renewal application." The renewal is every 5 years. In other words the law doesn't require much practice.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by T202
        To renew your CPL in Michigan you have to "Completed at least three (3) hours of review of the pistol safety training course and has at least 1 hour of firing range time in the 6 months immediately preceding the renewal application." The renewal is every 5 years. In other words the law doesn't require much practice.
        That's what the law requires. Just as all LEOs and Armed Security Officer's don't do the minimum, all civilians with a CPL don't do the minimum.

        I personally try to shoot at least a couple of boxes of ammo per gun/caliber a month, as time and money allow. But at least a box of ammo from my primary Glock 27 40 S&W, that I carry everywhere the law allows.

        Hopefully this never happens again, but lets be real. We are all on the same side. I have 8 years military, 4 years armed security and 10+ years as a CPL holder. Additionally, I was shooting with my dad (a LEO) when I was very young. That does not mean that I am out looking for trouble, but JUST IN CASE, I'm prepared.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Bill Warnock
          Your point is well taken; however, there is a mandatory course in some jurisdictions that have "shoot or don't shoot" courses law enforcement is required to take and periodic refresher training. But these courses are expensive and not all jurisdictions can afford them.
          Target acquisition is hard at best when your heart is pounding in your throat. That is why I am an advocate of "stress" shooting wherein the shooters are required to either double time around a know distance range or run in place for a period of one minute. After that exercise, when shooters are at their designated positions and the ready right, ready left commands are issued and cleared, the range instructor issues the command to fire a particular number of rounds in a preselected string of fire. The first time the target looks like a shotgun pattern.
          Civilian courses for CCW do not offer that training. Those of us who are fortunate to have had that intense training have an appreciation of the three principles of shooting, breath control, sight alignment and trigger squeeze.
          Again, your observations are well founded and not lost on the other members of the forum.
          Enjoy the day,
          Bill
          Bill you are right. Civilian courses should offer the type of training you describe here. Here is a story about a gun owner who apparently didn't have the proper training.
          http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2476258.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by T202
            Bill you are right. Civilian courses should offer the type of training you describe here. Here is a story about a gun owner who apparently didn't have the proper training.
            http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2476258.
            T202, thank you. I send this to my former boss. I asked him to remember an after action report I wrote after a particular conference which dealt with DOD guard firearms training. Command Civilian Personnel Officer came down on me and my boss like a ton of bricks for suggesting more thorough training in firearms training, me for writing the report and him for sending it to Civilian Personnel. Back then all that was needed to become a DOD guard was to have been a veteran, see lightning and hear thunder.
            Hopefully that has changed but for warm body security companies, I think not.
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

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