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  • Another Mall Shooting: 5 Killed

    Well there was another shooting at a mall, this time in Utah, there were at least 5 fatalities, some crazed gunman with a shotgun entered the mall and started to knock people off.....being a director of security at a mall in southeastern michigan makes me wonder what measures can be taken to prevent this kind of havoc from taking place...sad thing is the only thing you can do is prepare your people and store tenants for such an emergency since it seems almost an impossibility to search every person that enters a mall for weapons....

  • #2
    Off of CNN:
    A shooting tonight at a trendy mall in Salt Lake City, Utah, has left as many as four or five people dead, Fire Department spokesman Scott Freitag tells CNN. Freitag said three people were wounded and sent to area hospitals. A suspect is among the dead, authorities said.



    At least the Tango is down too.
    www.oramsecurity.com

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    • #3
      Mall shooting

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070213/.../utah_shooting


      There's a link to the story

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      • #4
        Odd enough.......I was supposed to eat dinner tonight with some friends at the mall. Glad I didn't go. My mom called me crying thinking I was shot; she tried to call like 3 times before and I didn't answer since my phone was in the other room. I eat at that particular mall about once every couple of weeks; I often times have to escort some of my residents there while they shop (I guard high-profile people). SLC has never seen anything this tragic in our entire state.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by motorcitymadness
          Well there was another shooting at a mall, this time in Utah, there were at least 5 fatalities, some crazed gunman with a shotgun entered the mall and started to knock people off.....being a director of security at a mall in southeastern michigan makes me wonder what measures can be taken to prevent this kind of havoc from taking place...sad thing is the only thing you can do is prepare your people and store tenants for such an emergency since it seems almost an impossibility to search every person that enters a mall for weapons....
          IMO there is no way to prevent it from happening but only ways to stop it asap.
          I don't endorse armed security in a crowed mall but do think that a couple cops roaming around would be a good idea. That is what they do to the schools in this area. It at least sends the message that force will be met with force.
          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
          THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
          http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Chucky
            IMO there is no way to prevent it from happening but only ways to stop it asap.
            I don't endorse armed security in a crowed mall but do think that a couple cops roaming around would be a good idea. That is what they do to the schools in this area. It at least sends the message that force will be met with force.
            They are pretty good at preventing things like this is Israel but I don't think we in north america are ready to suffer the inconvinences the Israeli type of security requires - YET!
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chucky
              IMO there is no way to prevent it from happening but only ways to stop it asap.I don't endorse armed security in a crowed mall but do think that a couple cops roaming around would be a good idea. That is what they do to the schools in this area. It at least sends the message that force will be met with force.
              I second that opinion. I doubt if the guy planned on getting out alive anyhow. In his sick mind, he likely wanted to take out as many people as he could.

              A mall should have a police sub-station to support security. A mix of armed and unarmed security could be on hand since two police officers are hardly enough to respond quickly in a large facility like that.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't really see a difference in having armed police officers roaming the mall simply to deter/destroy shooters, and having armed security. Its a protective function, not an enforcement function.

                Prevention in a public place like that is nearly impossible without restrictions that would lower sales. No one wants to be screened going into the mall.

                Until armed police show up (since most malls don't have armed security, or confrontational security), there is no one to stop it, and this is "preferable."

                After all, if the police show up and kill the bad guy, its not the mall who's going to be sued for "wrongful death" and all that. Its the police force. Who isn't the mall.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #9
                  Chucky, you hit dead center! Had it not been for that off duty police officer from Ogden, there may have been more body bags. If the news media got it right, all this man did was corner the subject and wait for SLC police to do their thing.
                  Enjoy the day,
                  Bill

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                  • #10
                    Mall security in Utah is a joke, anyways. At Trolley Square, all the officers are unarmed, and only carry the following on their duty belts: flashlight, 1 pair of handcuffs, and a radio. All other equipment is frowned upon or barred from being carried. The officers are not allowed to touch anyone with the exception of making an arrest pursuant of shoplifting, or theft. That's it. Sad to say, most mall security officers here that I have run into are really not all that bright; I have carried on more intelligent conversations with a rock. I have seen guards go as far as demanding ID from uniformed police officers, and then questioning the authenticity of said ID. Many mall officers range from 18-20 yrs of age, and are just budding out of high school. I understand we all learn somewhere at sometime, but working an active property such as a mall is not a good idea until they are fully trained in their specified duties. It seems as if Utah sees security as being just a necessary evil, and do not want to admit the fact the world is changing fast. I am impressed with the fact that an off duty Ogden police officer with only his pistol, badge, and handcuffs deployed and engaged the suspect, with no backup or notification to dispatch. SLCPD trains rigorously with ERT's, forming them with just patrol officers and then engaging, before SWAT is even called. The chief of police said the SLCPD response time was 3 mins from the first 911 call, and the officers that arrived on scene assisted the Ogden officer in the gun battle; 6 mins in, the officers called back 10-85 Echo on the suspect (our code for obvious fatality). I can only hope that this sort of tragedy sends a message to the people of Utah that security is serious business, and not to be taken lightly (ironic coming from a guy whose SN handle pokes slight fun at our industry; you have to have some sense of humor to work in the business, or you are going to end up being a gun-toting robocop with a chip on your shoulder. Met way too many of those guys here).
                    Last edited by Professional Rent-a-Cop; 02-13-2007, 08:49 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's um, not just Utah. Most malls don't want the liability of protection. Just the appearance of safety through uniformed people. That they carry handcuffs is a big step up, btw, most of the malls I've seen won't give their employees anything since that incurs liability.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Professional Rent-a-Cop
                        Mall security in Utah is a joke, anyways. At Trolley Square, all the officers are unarmed, and only carry the following on their duty belts: flashlight, 1 pair of handcuffs, and a radio. All other equipment is frowned upon or barred from being carried. The officers are not allowed to touch anyone with the exception of making an arrest pursuant of shoplifting, or theft. That's it. Sad to say, most mall security officers here that I have run into are really not all that bright; I have carried on more intelligent conversations with a rock. I have seen guards go as far as demanding ID from uniformed police officers, and then questioning the authenticity of said ID. Many mall officers range from 18-20 yrs of age, and are just budding out of high school. I understand we all learn somewhere at sometime, but working an active property such as a mall is not a good idea until they are fully trained in their specified duties. It seems as if Utah sees security as being just a necessary evil, and do not want to admit the fact the world is changing fast. I am impressed with the fact that an off duty Ogden police officer with only his pistol, badge, and handcuffs deployed and engaged the suspect, with no backup or notification to dispatch. SLCPD trains rigorously with ERT's, forming them with just patrol officers and then engaging, before SWAT is even called. The chief of police said the SLCPD response time was 3 mins from the first 911 call, and the officers that arrived on scene assisted the Ogden officer in the gun battle; 6 mins in, the officers called back 10-85 Echo on the suspect (our code for obvious fatality). I can only hope that this sort of tragedy sends a message to the people of Utah that security is serious business, and not to be taken lightly (ironic coming from a guy whose SN handle pokes slight fun at our industry; you have to have some sense of humor to work in the business, or you are going to end up being a gun-toting robocop with a chip on your shoulder. Met way too many of those guys here).
                        LOL. I enjoyed that.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                        • #13
                          I honestly think it won't send a message that security is serious business, since an off-duty police officer was there to protect them. Security in this instance did nothing, it was the public police who stopped the shooter.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Another mall shooting

                            The Rand Corp. came out with a study, stating that Security at Malls should be armed, Parking lot inspections of cars, and metal detectors should be placed at all entrances.
                            As a Public Safety Director at a large Private Mall in Iowa, it will not happen!!
                            I talked to my Officers last night about this shooting. We are not armed yet we have off-duty Officers after 5:00 p.m.
                            Your training should include major events like this. I reminded my Officers that there is a roll of caution tape in the medical bag. This is used to mark off areas, and also to let the Officers know that this area is clear.
                            When you plan a scenario, throw in some road bumps.
                            No I don't, and my Officers do not carry weapons. We use verbal judo, flashlights, and an occasional shovel to handle things out of the ordinary.
                            We do what ever is necessary to keep us safe and also the Mall safe.
                            If a Mall is hiring young and dumb, then that is the kind of officers that they want. My force is in-house, that way I can be loyal to them, and they are loyal to me.
                            It does not matter if your force is in-house or Contract, management sets the tone, and also the needs, and training.
                            If this is not done at your site, bring it to managemnet's attention, or go to work at a safer location.
                            I have a 100 stores and two Office buildings in Iowa, and my Officers team with the off-duty Police to make a great team.
                            If your boss does not have the policy such as mine, "I will never ask one of my Officers to do something that I won't do".
                            run to a better job!!!
                            Be safe
                            Chuck Schamp CPP

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                            • #15
                              The mall attacked is also posted as a no carry for people with concealed carry permits. If the mall had not been so worried about keeping legally armed citizens out of the mall the off duty LEO might have had some help a lot sooner.

                              I personally do not enter any business that I can not carry my legal firearm.

                              The perp on this was a Bosnian national and reportedly a muslim. Put together, it looks like another islamic terrorist.

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