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  • #46
    Originally posted by LPCap
    Here is a video of LP (or mall security??)

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=9T-vuk5rw_Y

    Comments...
    LP, since their plainclothes. It's hard to say whether they missed any opportunities for any DT stuff--counter joints, pressure points, etc. I wasn't there. But they did a take-down and controlled his arms, which was important. All in all they got him handcuffed and controlled--nice job.

    Fortunately ( ), CopWatch was on the scene with their trusty videocamera to capture any potential use of excessive force. The suspect was playing to the crowd, of course--"I can't breath!" (yet you can yell--how does that work?), "You punched me!", "I'm not resisting!" etc.

    The people in the crowd really irked me, though. "Do you have this authority?" Oh, no, I'm just robbing this guy but asking you to call the police in the meantime.... seriously, come on. "Let me see your badge!" Oh, right, I'll let go of this active resister to assure you I'm who I say I am.

    Idiots.

    Comment


    • #47
      I find all this debate interesting.

      If you have a problem with the same shoplifters coming in again and again, the problem is you. It doesn't matter whether you choose to deter or apprehend. If they keep coming back over and over, you are doing something wrong.

      Apprehension is no more effective than deterrence, and in fact, in my experience, far less effective. The reason is simple. You can deter many more people than you can apprehend. In a single hour, you could potentially deter dozens of shoplifters. You could apprehend one, unless there is a group together.

      Now the question comes in as to who is more likely to come back. I have seen shoplifters I have apprehended come back within a week. It happens. I would agree that more often they do not come back again, at least not right away, but apprehension does not guarantee that they will not be back again. With deterrence, it all comes down to the consistency of deterrence. If someone comes in and gets deterred from stealing, they will probably come back. If they come back a second time and experience the same service that deters them again, they are less likely to come back again. If they come back a third time and are deterred again, they will give up trying to steal from your store.

      Now, in comparison. Say someone comes in and shoplifts and nobody sees them. They will surely be back. Now, they come in a second time and it is easy to steal again. They come in ten more times and it is easy to steal again. On the 11th attempt to steal, they get caught. Will they be back again? Most likely. If the odds of getting caught are less than 10% they will probably keep coming back over and over. When you consider that the average shoplifter gets away with stealing at least 50 times before they get caught, catching them really has little impact on whether they will be back again or not.

      This is why deterrence strategy is more effective. You can more consistently deter a larger group of potential shoplifters who will ultimately decide to do their shoplifting elsewhere.

      Now that is Loss Prevention.
      www.plsolutions.net
      www.customerloyaltysolutions.com

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by LPGuy
        LP, since their plainclothes. It's hard to say whether they missed any opportunities for any DT stuff--counter joints, pressure points, etc. I wasn't there. But they did a take-down and controlled his arms, which was important. All in all they got him handcuffed and controlled--nice job.

        Fortunately ( ), CopWatch was on the scene with their trusty videocamera to capture any potential use of excessive force. The suspect was playing to the crowd, of course--"I can't breath!" (yet you can yell--how does that work?), "You punched me!", "I'm not resisting!" etc.

        The people in the crowd really irked me, though. "Do you have this authority?" Oh, no, I'm just robbing this guy but asking you to call the police in the meantime.... seriously, come on. "Let me see your badge!" Oh, right, I'll let go of this active resister to assure you I'm who I say I am.

        Idiots.
        The stop was clearly done by guys who had no idea on how to control a suspect. Of course, this is typical LP stuff.

        I always love when LP guys feel the need to wear gloves. It just screams "looking for a fight".
        www.plsolutions.net
        www.customerloyaltysolutions.com

        Comment


        • #49
          Lets see the TPS in action. You will mostly see the APS, but the TPS will come into quite a few shots wearing the typical white security shirt and black pants.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdyWLDpI8M

          Most of the apprehending is done by the APS and the police while the TPS does nothing.

          This is not to negate the importance of the TPS, but just to show you what you will be doing.

          Comment


          • #50
            Look about 2 1/2 minutes into the video...you will see a guy talking on the phone getting leveled by the police, then comes the APS, the white shirt. What is up with that?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by LPCap
              Lets see the TPS in action. You will mostly see the APS, but the TPS will come into quite a few shots wearing the typical white security shirt and black pants.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDdyWLDpI8M

              Most of the apprehending is done by the APS and the police while the TPS does nothing.

              This is not to negate the importance of the TPS, but just to show you what you will be doing.
              I think this is more than likely the exception rather than the norm. The female TPS in the white shirt/black pants looked extremely inexperienced and incompetent. It appears that she made one feeble attempt to assist the APS in controlling the resisting shoplifter's hands and then backed off. She then appears to take out a pair of handcuffs and wait for the APS to gain control of the guy. Then she appears to be calling 911 on her cell phone and performing crowd control. When the police arrive and everyone is still struggling with this guy, she looks confused as to what to do, so she pushes the evidence (a rolling trash can) out of the way and then stands around again.

              Perhaps the APS called her off when she attempted to assist. I don't know. But if she's physically unable or unwilling to perform the job and assist her fellow officer who is struggling with an active resister, she needs to look for a new line of work. Now.

              I had an identical situation occur where a male shoplifter ran when we approached in the parking lot. I pursued and ended up wrestling the guy while trying to control his hands. My female officer ended up going back to retrieve the guy's backpack that he had dropped and stood around calling into her radio for police assistance while I was still struggling to get the guy into handcuffs. Not once did she assist in controlling him. Needless to say, I wasn't happy about that.

              Comment


              • #52
                I spoke with the local TPS at our store, telling him that I wanted a job there... After some confidence building, handing him a business card, he opened way up to me, and told me, "You don't want this job. We're not allowed to touch anyone. We just tell people to keep back while the APS arrests the guy."

                He was not authorized to carry anything, and was only issued a Target Radio and a white cordless phone. I asked him if he was authorized to wear anything else, and he said, "No, the APS carries handcuffs, but TPS is strictly hands off."

                I have never seen a uniformed person carry a cordless phone in a radio case before.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                Comment


                • #53
                  I have seen them carry a pouch full of quarters...oh wait that was in a movie

                  Here is a surveillance pic of a TPS in action...

                  http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...tics/horse.jpg

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    I spoke with the local TPS at our store, telling him that I wanted a job there... After some confidence building, handing him a business card, he opened way up to me, and told me, "You don't want this job. We're not allowed to touch anyone. We just tell people to keep back while the APS arrests the guy."

                    He was not authorized to carry anything, and was only issued a Target Radio and a white cordless phone. I asked him if he was authorized to wear anything else, and he said, "No, the APS carries handcuffs, but TPS is strictly hands off."

                    I have never seen a uniformed person carry a cordless phone in a radio case before.
                    That is probably specific to that Target region then. The local TPSs in my area all wear dark blue professional looking uniforms with a nice badge to boot. They wear duty belts and carry handcuffs. I've heard them talking about making apprehensions before, but from what I understand, the apprehension must be initiated by an APS.

                    LOL at the TPS for giving away trade secrets so openly, by the way...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Actually the TPS can carry handcuffs but they can only use them if the APS or ETL-AP is making a stop and the person being detained becomes combative. I know for a fact that some APS's don't even carry cuffs and just let the TPS carry them since carrying handcuffs can sometimes be somewhat noisy and can alert shoplifters depending on which kind of cuffs they carry.

                      What the TPS carry are handcuffs, flashlight, radio, and disposable gloves. I believe more stores are having TPS's carry a phone from the store in case the TPS's need to be contacted.

                      Comment

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